Do You Believe in Magic?
Don’t get me wrong – I love magic as much as the next person. I loved the Harry Potter books and films. As a kid, I loved magic shops where I could check out the latest sleight-of-hand paraphernalia.
But I try not to let it influence my thinking.
“Magical thinking” is, in simple terms, seeking a causal relationship between things that may not be related or connected at all. Superstitions fall into this type of thinking: “step on a crack and break your Mother’s back.” Sports is rife with these: for example, Michael Jordan (a graduate of North Carolina) always wore his blue North Carolina shorts under his Bulls uniform for good luck. Some sports fans always wear a certain article of clothing on game day to ensure their team wins.
Young children sometimes project their emotions onto the world around them: “It’s raining because I’m sad.”
And of course religions have many of these things: praying to a certain god or saint, going through a certain prayer, chant or ritual to please the gods, or avoiding certain taboos.
Scientology, of course, doesn’t indulge in anything as irrational as magical thinking.
Or does it?
Enter Barbara Dews, Flag Service Consultant and magical thinker. She recently sent out an amazing e-mail called “An OT Boom of Unimaginable Proportions: 10,000 on Solo Nots.” It’s worth analyzing in some detail. She begins:
“We have passed the halfway point in our quest to get to 10,000 at the top of the Gradation Chart. Yes, that does mean we now have over 5000 New OT VIIs & OT VIIIs on earth!”
Let me stop you right there, Barbara. Not to quibble over details, but a former Solo Nots D of P posted some numbers over at ESMB that you might want to look at. There is a tag system for Solo NOTs Auditors and, according to this poster, they break down like this:
1,000 Green tags: Auditing 4 to 6 sessions daily and coming for 6-month checks.
1,100 Grey tags: Auditing less than 4 sessions daily and not coming for 6 month check.
900 Orange tags: Not allowed to solo audit due to an out-ethics situation.
800 Purple tags: Not allowed to audit because of illness.
1,500 Black tags: Disaffected with the Church (or, as we like to say, disinfected).
And, in case you hadn’t noticed, Barbara, there has been a major exodus of VIIs and VIIIs. But do go on – you were saying?
“This is massively good news, of course, for the planet and the handling of this society! But what is actually more important is the next stage, getting the next 5000 onto Solo NOTs to bring us up to the 10,000 figure.
“Why 10,000?
“Per calculations done when the target was first launched it was estimated that these OTs, now Cause Over Life or close to it, would produce a large enough volume of field activity to get all orgs to Saint Hill size and consequently bring about the release of New OT IX and X. It was a mathematical equation, all extrapolated out.”
Oh really? It was a mathematical calculation? Well, then it must be valid if it was mathematical!
Sorry to be skeptical, Barbara, but I think the only calculation used to come up with that 10,000 number was:
MG
X = ——————-
$$$$
where MG equals Miscavige’s Greed and $$$ represents the projected amount each Scientologist will spend between OT Levels, IAS and Ideal Orgs.
If you have a different “mathematical calculation,” I’d love to see it.
But do go on.
“From the real physical universe effects this would create in terms of case gain and resultant third dynamic activity, including mid – New OT VIIs and New OT VIIIs joining staff, it was estimated we would achieve the goal of bringing about the release of New OT IX and X.”
Just a note here Barbara: read Marty’s latest post. There is no OT IX and X. Or hadn’t you figured that out after 24 years?
OK, now we get to the magical thinking:
“But not only that – it was also estimated that 10,000 on or through New OT VII would be able to do a lot of “steering or leading”… and thus the achievement of this target would go a long way towards handling our society.
“There is another aspect to this: the technical fact is, that as one progresses up the Gradation Chart, one has a direct destimulating effect on the fourth dynamic.
“When one hits the Second Wall of Fire (New OT V to New OT VII) this become a real factor. In fact, it has been said, very truthfully, that this level of The Bridge, “Every session counts.”
“Thus, when discussing the target to have 10,000 Scientologists at the top of The Bridge grade chart we are talking about a combination of the very tangible, direct effects these OTs create, combined with the not so tangible, but just as important, theta factors involved.
“Having now made several thousand Golden Age of Tech Solo Nots auditors and over 1400 New OT VII completions, activity in the physical universe more than confirms the theory above – we are seeing more and more major, planet-changing type activity every single week, with mid-New OT VIIs and New OT VIIIs as one of the major thrusts behind all of these advances.”
So let me understand this: if we make 10,000 OT VIIs, they would take leadership positions on a planetary basis? Really? Maybe you can tell me of some of the existing OT VIIs who are in leadership positions in the world. I’m not aware of any, but I’m willing to hear some examples.
And even if they don’t take hands-on leadership roles, just the fact of them having attained that state will somehow magically destimulate the entire planet.
And Barbara says we are already experiencing major, planet-changing activity every week. Really? Would it be too much trouble to ask for some specifics? What have these VIIs changed about the planet?
I remember when the Berlin Wall fell in November, 1989, it was said that the reason for this was because of all the OT VIIIs being made aboard the Freewinds. Even though none of them had anything to do with the liberalization of the Eastern Bloc’s authoritarian systems or the erosion of Soviet-bloc power. No, it was magical! OT VIIIs were made, and bingo! – the wall came down. Scientologists seriously advanced this as the “reason.”
Barbara carries on that tradition. All we need to do to “handle the planet” is make 10,000 OT VIIs. And amazingly, there are people who will believe this.
And not see it for what it is – a sales pitch.
For those who believe in magic.
Comments are closed.
Leaving Scientology 
The literature on the Ls has promised ~
Stable Exteriorization, Exterior with Full Perceptions,
NOTS : Cause Over Life.
The actual statistics are quite different.
There has never been one OT 8 that was exemplary, that was
illustrating that this was something to aspire to.
OT 7s and 8s get cancer as much as anyone outside the Church.
OT 7s and 8s die of heart attacks and strokes as much as anyone outside the Church.
OT 7s and 8s go bankrupt and get into messy divorces as much as anyone
outside the Church
OT7s and 8s depart and leave the Church as if they had never experienced
any gain.
I have true and permanent exterior stable perception of the Cult of David Miscavige.
Karen – I love you! Your last line made me ACTUALLY laugh out loud!
Love,
Wh
same for me, great quote Karen,,,,,May I use it???
lvu
nancy
Jeff – another great article!
Karen – “I have true and permanent exterior stable perception of the Cult of David Miscavige.” Priceless! It didn’t cost anything and no regges were involved in a direct way, brought about by just maintaining personal integrity and looking.
The theory is that on the upper levels you audit on the 3rd and 4th dynamic. In theory, if this is true, then there should be a reduction of the combined reactive mind on the 3rd and 4th dynamics. This being the case, it would make sense to me that if you get a significant amount of people through those levels, that this would effect people around the world in a positive way. Thus you could call that magic. Hey, but if this is so odd and weird to you, so be it.
Weird or not isn’t the point. The point is, it’s just a theory as you say. It’s unproven and unprovable. So it falls into the category of belief. People believe in all manner of magical things, so be it. It doesn’t make them factual. I’m sure a lot of Scientologists believed that it was the OT VIIIs that somehow magically brought down the Berlin Wall.
The real point is you have an organization playing on that sort of magical thinking to squeeze a lot of money out of people. Its convenient for the Church – people don’t have to actually DO anything, they just have to pay a lot of money and “attain a state” and then everything gets resolved on the planet automatically. Remember that’s what they pushed after 9/11. “Get up the Bridge!” I challenge that thinking.
Jeff,
thank you!!!!
I know that millions upon millions of Germans wanted with unwaivering intent for the wall to come down from the very beginning of its existence. I am one of them and I still vividly remember the pain it inflicted on the common consciousness of my home country.
There were great leaders in Germany and in Poland, in the Czech republic and in Russia and in the states of the former USSR who worked tirelessly just towards that goal, thinking nothing else than how to accomplish just that peacefully and possibly without bloodshed.
Connecting up, joining forces, looking meticulously for common ground over all disconnecting agendas and segregating guilt and crimes committed, forging strong bonds amongst former embittered adversaries, always seeking out the biggest common denominator and understanding possible at any given time over decades led to the tipping point where the wall came down in an outburst of national joy which still brings tears of relieve and grateful humbleness to me. Reconciliation and re-connection is still celebrated…
The OT VIIIs, auditing on a ship where its bilges served as a concentration camp with the most outragious Human Rights violations imaginable being perpetrated…? Gimme a break. Identifying that as the cause for the fall of the Berlin wall is an insult beyond any insult! It’s delusion, it’s halluzination!!!
May I just ask, why then the OT VIIIs did not bring down the wall in Korea, allowed a wall being erected between Israel and Palestine inspite of all the 4th dynamic TWTH campaignes going on in the Middle East…
Thank you, Jeff, for discerning once again true magic of concerted will and action from insane halluzination.
Agreed.
Jon Atack’s book title says it all “A Piece of Blue Sky”
In the early 1980s, those posters of the soaring birds, way exterior, that deeply implied to me that on NOTs and Solo NOTs, one really gained full exterior flying abilities.
And the 2008 annonymous protester’s sign “Tom Cruise Can’t Fly” written in scratchy handwriting on a torn piece of cardboard, also cuts right to the chase.
The visiting lecturer professor who categorically warned the audience I was sitting in, in the early months of 1975, at Grady Gamage auditorium at Arizona State University, this famous lecturer warned categorically to stay AWAY from Scientology.
But even for all this well spoken and well reasoned cautions, I still was a sucker for the “out o the body” flying ability, that Scientology/Hubbard claims his Scientology therapy delivers (auditing IS therapy, and auditing IS exorcism because OT 3-7 is simply high volume dead space alien exorcism).
Nice blog Jeff!
Hi Fidelio,
I’m German as well and I felt exactly the same. In 1988 my school class went on a field trip to Berlin and we spent one day in East Berlin. A government guide showed us around, droning on about how great everything was in the GDR. Eventually I got so annoyed that I asked him this: If everything is so great in the East, why had the government built a wall to prevent the people from leaving?
He looked at me with a mixture of compassion and contempt, then he said: This is the antiimperialist protection wall. Over 20 years later I saw Tommy Davis’ interview with Nathan Baca, where he’s asked about the inward-pointing spikes at Gold Base. When I heard his answer (It’s just how they were installed) I was hit by a deja vu so intense I can’t describe it.
Anyway, I’m glad I made that experience in East Berlin, I think it helped me not to get drawn in too deep. After four months I was out. My fiance, who had body routed me in, stayed. That really hurt.
BTW: Your English is excellent, did you spend time in the US/Saint Hill working for Scientology?
Alles Gute
Fidelio –
Thanks you so much for sharing this. Like most Americans, I remember vividly when the wall came down. I still feel that profound emotional swell when I think of it – what an intensely joyful moment that was to be part of humanity. The entire world celebrated with you!
When I think of what it must have been like to LIVE with that wall, with what it symbolized as well as the very real oppression of human freedom that went with it, I can only imagine that the experience of a German citizen at the moment of that wall’s demise must have been well beyond my own.
So yes, I have to agree with you that it’s beyond “magical thinking” to give credit for that event to a handful of people with e-meters. It’s the height of arrogance. And it’s further evidence that, often, the further up the bridge you go, the less in touch you are with the real world, and the more accept that “new reality” that is defined for you, one in which the laws of the physical universe are “bent” by your thoughts, where you are responsible for everything everywhere, and the church is a champion of human rights.
Delusional, indeed.
a few people with emeters on a ship in the Caribbean
sorry – please disregard the last line.
Hi Jeff,
While I was on OT7 , I used to think this: “If it is so important to get 10,000 onto the level then why don’t they let people on at a much reduced rate and get a lot of Sea Org members onto it?? (especially if we have millions of members) (we don’t) If this is the magical calculation, then shit…let’s go for broke!! The church of missedsanity has a ton of money in the bank.. Hell! Put your money where your mouth is!!
Cool Observer,
thanks.
With re to my English – having had a shaky foundation laid at school, I learned English with LRH since I refused to study the poor translations when I started. That’s definitely something I have to give credit to the subject. 😉 🙂
Alles Gute auch Dir!
Fidelio
For those for whom the fall of the Berlin Wall was a special event…
And for those for whom the end of the policy of disconnection will be a special event…
http://www.youtube.com/user/lronhu88ard#p/a/u/1/VZ-3JQGwps4
Jeff, this is right on. This is exactly how I was conned into contributing to the IAS when it was first launched. I was at a standstill in my life in someways, and I thought it might help me get unstuck if I helped the IAS create a more theta environment on the 3rd and 4th dynamics.
The result? I went into debt , was unable to pay for my Bridge, and of course the IAS did nothing. The IAS is one big fraud which played on my belief about the value of creating a safer environment at large.
And I still believe it is something that needs to be done, but it is not something that will be accomplished by throwing money at it.
It will be done by each of us holding up our corner of the universe and creating a safe space for the other fellow just as you are doing with this blog.
No-one else can be delegated to “do it for me”, I must participate in the creation of a better world, if I want one to be there for me.
Thank you for being there and having this blog for us.
Jeff,
Barbara is just taking hyperbole to the next level – Straight up and vertical! 🙂
Read this again:
“An OT Boom of Unimaginable Proportions: 10,000 on Solo Nots”
It IS unimaginable! It is “Hallucinatory Cause” raised to the nth degree!
An unfortunate choice of words which invites ridicule. Barbara will probably be assigned to the RPF by next week.
If she moves fast, she can be on the Underground Railway before her new orders arrive…
There must be some guys on this blog good at MATH.
Let’s look at the BUSINESS hard core $$$$$$$ side of 10,000 on Solo Nots.
Reporting in 2x a year for sec checks, minimally 2 intensives at approx $7,500 an intensive.
That is $30,000 coughed up a year per solo nots pc.
So if we have 10,000 each paying minimally $30,000 a year for Flag visits, plus the charge for CSing.
WHAT IS THE REVENUE FOR FLAG FOR 10,000 PCS SPENDING $30,000 A YEAR.
?
Wow.
@Karen#1.
“I have true and permanent exterior stable perception of the Cult of David Miscavige.”
HooWhaaaa, girl! Grinning from ear to ear sharing that one with ya, yes!
Marta,
I second your strong yes to Karen#1.
LOL
Fidelio
“Cause over Scientology”
Another way of saying returned to normal citizen’s viewpoint.
I agree with you Jeff. The 10,000 figure is totally arbitrary. There is no LRH reference on this. If a person spends an average of $20,000 a year to stay on Solo Nots (6 month check, accomos, food while at Flag etc.) and if you had even 5000 on the level at a given time, that comes to $100,000,000.00 per year in income.
The real reason for the 6 month check should be pretty clear.
I can tell you, having audited OT VII that it does in fact have a positive effect on the pre OTs 3rd and 4th dynamic. This is as you wrote, unprovable, unless you’ve done the level. There is also a future positive effect on the 3rd and 4th dynamics as a whole if even one person audited OT VII. But again, you would have to have done the theory and audited the level for this to be real. I have found that most people who have done, or are on OT VII don’t really understand the theory behind it. Nor do they understand what they are doing on the level or in session. I attribute this to them being “trained” GAT. The majority of people who have gotten onto VII are simply not auditor trained. I personally think it would be best to have a prerequisite of Interned Class IV to get on the level from a pre-GAT checksheet, rather than having to be a Patron of the IAS as is required by a non LRH SPD. People who were trained pre-GAT seem to have a much better grasp on the subject of auditing as a whole and have a better idea of what they are doing on OT VII than thoses “trained” with GAT. My 2 cents.
“I agree with you Jeff. The 10,000 figure is totally arbitrary. There is no LRH reference on this.”
Suppose it was referenced to LRH, why would it be less arbitrary?
Agreed, 10K on Solo Nots seems to be more lucrative than just “Clear the Planet!” which seems to have been dropped out, similar to St Hill size orgs dropped for Idle Orgs.
Howdy Jeff ~~
Just back from vacation. So much catch ups to do. Wow on the last few blogs.
This is becoming an Exit-from-the-cult Manual.
I read the Tommy Davis Gloat on the Headley decision.
But someone also sent me this news report
http://www.examiner.com/x-8922-Skepticism-Examiner~y2010m8d7-Scientology-wins-legal-victory-loses-public-image-war
Imagine the mind set inside the Cult when they gloat when
Quote
Other practices that made it into court records include:
Sleep and food deprivation of Sea Org employees;
Heavy and demeaning manual labor as punishment;
Screening and censorship of employee communications;
Threats of job loss for those who refuse abortions;
Physical and procedural restrictions on the ability of Sea Org employees to leave;
Church-enforced “Disconnection” (utter rejection) of former Sea Org employees by their families; and Harsh discipline against Sea Org employees who voice a desire to leave.
While it may come as a surprise to some that a church can legally take these actions against its own members, by most ex-member accounts, the situation at Scientology is nothing new. What is new is that the church is becoming so ineffective at preventing its secrets from becoming common knowledge.
UNQUOTE.
Don’t they realize how abhorrent and repugnant their image is ?
I can’t get my darned name off
the Scientology Services Completions list in that
Truth About Scientology site.
It is humiliating to be on that site. Doesn’t anyone have a formula on how to get off that list ? HELP !
Well, its a bit off topic, but be it: the Headley decision is a Pyrrhic victory. Pathetic.
Rebecca
Get declared?
This whole idea of ‘magical’ is contrary to all the LRH basic data I have ever read. What is Scientology? It is defined as ‘the study of knowledge’ and ‘knowing how to know’. It is not ‘knowing how to guess’ or ‘knowing how to believe’. We have basic principles of obnosis, look don’t listen, stat analysis, the data series, et al. And I recall a common phrase LRH often spoke of… ’cause’. In fact more often he spoke of ‘KNOWING cause’.
If someone had walked into the NOTs area and said to everyone “Hey guys! You’ve all just brought down the Berlin wall!” They’d go: “Huh? Did we? Wow!”. This isn’t cause – this is effect. Cause occurs BEFORE effect. You can’t decide you caused something after the fact – you have to have the intension and postulate beforehand.
I do agree that NOTs can have a large effect on the 3/4th dynamics, but the actual point of Jeff’s post here is that OT should be ‘knowing cause’. When someone says ‘everything just seems to be going right in my life since I started this auditing’, that is actually a good indicator and is what is supposed to happen. But when you hear ‘my income tax bill just got cancelled – shows how OT I am’ (but he didn’t intend that to happen, it came as a surprise), that’s a totally different thing.
If something happens as a surprise, that means you didn’t intend it, so you were NOT the knowing cause of it.
This all ties in with Jeff’s excellent earlier post about the difference between knowing and believing. How come so many of us forget that simple fact that scientology is ‘the study of KNOWLEDGE’.
If somebody could show me an issue that came out before the Berlin wall collapse, that says “One purpose of NOTs is to bring the Berlin wall down”, then I’d go ‘wow that’s OT cause!’. Until then, LRH’s basic data applies.
Very good point, eyeswider!
I would add to that, even if you intended something to happen and it happened does not mean you were the cause of it happening.
I voted for Obama. I intended for him to get elected. He got elected. I contributed to that election, but if I had not voted, I suspect he would have been elected, anyway.
So even if a stated purpose of NOT’s had been to bring the wall down, that would not have meant that NOT’s had caused the wall to come down. Such a conclusion would completely discount what we know of cause and effect in the PHYSICAL universe, and it completely discounts the intentions and EFFORTS, the actual ACTIONS of others in bring down the wall.
Great post! Great blog!
More of magical thinking in Scn.
— The release of OT 8 caused the Berlin Wall to come crashing down.
— Passing out The Way to Happiness has caused:
Peace in the Middle East to occur.
Drug trafficing in Columbia to lessen.
Lowered the crime rate in certain areas
Whenever anything good happens, Scn and it’s magical thinking is the reason why. Whenever anything bad happens, the evil psychs did it.
Patty ~~
But Peace in the Middle East has never been more precarious as Iran rushes towards its won Nuclear Bomb.
Drug trafficking stats are out the roof even with higher and higher budgets to DEA. The Colombian cartels have so infused the Mexican cartels that the crime is spilling right over the boarder into the US in key boarder towns such as Warez/El Paso, not to mention Arizona.
Lowered crime rate, hard to swallow.
The brutality and abuse which is now part of Court records is beyond anything one can imagine in a religion.
There are chapters and chapters in the Red Volumes on ARC. But RTC is trained to be “cold chrome steel” and intimidating and brutal.
There are chapters and chapters in the Red Volumes on communication, the basics on it, the structure and formula of it.
But members are forced to disconnect, break up family members, separate parents and children, brothers and sisters and husbands and wives.
OT 7s and 8s, the highest levels attainable are ordered to not read the web, ordered to watch and not watch videos etc.
This is a Dr Jekell/ Mr Hyde “religion”.
Why have the OTs been silent since 1989/90? Well, with great power comes great responsibility: They facilitated Germany’s reunification, and this has increased the evil influence of the land of intolerance! Major footbullet. The Russians are so angry that the OTs wrestled the sattelite states from Mother Russia’s grip that they have banned Hubbard’s books. No good deed goes unpunished.
So they have formed various committees, research groups, word clearers and LRH reference checkers to map out a route for safe salvaging without negative ramificatitons. In the meantime they use their powers in a non-hazardous way like stopping the rain to help wogs getting to their car without getting soaked, or flowing positive energy to dying goldfish to nurse them back to health. Read the OT success stories if you don’t believe this.
Apparently they’ve figured out the safe salvaging route, but in the meantime the staffing level has grown a little thin. People have no patience these days, even when they’re working in securing their eternity.
LOL , shot into one’s knee, as the Germans put it.
Once outside the bubble then turning to look back in, the magical thinking is so obvious. But, when inside the bubble, magical thinking is the the order of the day.
When I was ‘in’ and engaged the following statement from Barbara’s email, based on what I believed to be true, made perfect sense to me…
“Why 10,000?
“Per calculations done when the target was first launched it was estimated that these OTs, now Cause Over Life or close to it, would produce a large enough volume of field activity to get all orgs to Saint Hill size and consequently bring about the release of New OT IX and X. It was a mathematical equation, all extrapolated out.”
Outside the bubble, though, this bucket doesn’t hold water.
Then there’s this line from Barbara…
“…we are seeing more and more major, planet-changing type activity every single week…”
Barbara, my dear, you have no idea! However, you fail to realize that the abundance of planet-changing type activity has not much, if anything, to do with what is happening in or being done by your church.
Barbara is trapped inside the bubble and caught in the web of magical thinking. She and her fellow church members are under a magical spell (hmmm, black magic?). Thus, under the influence of the spell, she acts to perpetuate the false, inside the bubble, perception that CoS has this tremendous sphere of influence. When, in fact, its sphere of influence is in a steady and rapidly increasing decline.
It was not all that long ago (less than a year) that I had LRH, CoS, DM, The Tech, placed high up on Mt. Olympus with a sphere of influence that embraced the entire universe (I happen to have an incredible imagination) and I saw myself in relationship to this comprehensive scn pkg. as one where I was very small and insignificant and it was very big and overpowering. I am amazed that in just a few short months, my perception of the scn pkg. has so dramatically shifted. The pkg seems so small to me now.
……………….
On another note… ever hear of the channeled being, Bashar? Well, if not, he’s on youtube. Anyway, just yesterday I discovered that back in the mid 80’s Bashar had something to say about scn. Makes sense to me.
http://whenandnow.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/scientology-and-bashar/
Monte you crack me up!! I too have a good imagination. That is one way I can spin it so I don’t feel like such a moron buying into some of this BS.. I know Jeff, that’s not being nice to myself..but I am going to have some ice cream after this and make up with myself!!
Tony, I have always thought that having a good imagination was a tremedous asset. However, sometimes I do wonder if that really is the case. LRH stated (somewhere), that delusion was the result of one losing control of their imagination. Makes sense to me. In any case, that description of delusion went up on my favorites bar. And whenever I happen to have an audience riveted to my every word as I wax philisophical, I slowly tug on the whiskers of my gotee and, like a sage of old, I inform them that delusion is nothing more than an imagination out of control. Hearing that, they immediately drop to one knee and bow their heads as they recognize they are in prescense of greatness. Ahhh…these homo-saps are so malable.
Ooops….my apologies. For a short moment there I dropped the reins on my imagination.
I found an appropriate video to go with Jeff’s blog post. It’s titled, Why Do People Believe Strange Things? Here it is:
Monte,
It sounds like you realized 80:08 in the relationship between CoS:You.
Hah!! What esoteric humor that is.
“Spooky action at a distance” is how Einstein described certain aspects of quantum physics. Because our current level of knowledge is unable to connect all of the dots here between cause and effect, physicists deal with these phenomena as statistical probabilities rather than hard realities. If it was observed that certain things tended to happen rather consistently around OTs, the same principle could be applied. But that’s not how it goes.
A few years ago I had an unforgettable discussion with an OT VII about environmental issues. This person insisted that getting more people up to the top of the Bridge was the only thing that was going to handle global climate change, peak oil and a laundry list of economic hardships and social injustices around the world. It wasn’t that the superior intellect of OTs would allow them to come up with new solutions, or that their combined theta power could be focused on each problem in turn to make it disappear. Those would imply some kind of cause and effect, even if all the connecting dots were not known. No, the way my conversational partner understood it was that just the existence of these people, in this case state, out in the world was somehow going to untie Gordian knots all over the globe.
Well I’m sorry but that’s just superstition, on a larger scale but no different in substance from the athlete with his lucky socks. And I don’t know how many new OT VIIIs have been made since that conversation, but I can see that reports of severe weather around the world are on the rise, we continue to flirt with a global economic meltdown, and the “wars against terror” carry on with no end in sight. So I say to all of you OTs out there: if you can do anything about these problems, either in the theta universe or right here with your sleeves rolled up, now would be a good time!
Aeolus,
What a cheeky bastard. Are you suggesting that sleeves rolled up, and thought, energy and creativity APPLIED could be more effective than a framed certificate and an empty bank account?
Radical thought, my friend. Radical indeed.
LookDon’tListen,
I have not done the OT levels so I don’t know what of you speak of in terms of the positive effects auditing on OTVII has on pre-OTs 3rd and 4th Dynamic. With all due respect, I really don’t even know what that sentence actually means. Can you give some physical universe examples that you can conclusively prove were directly caused by such?
You also state that most people auditing on OTVII are not trained enough and so they don’t truly understand what they are doing on the level or in session. Does this mean that if they did understand then the effects would be more magical? They obviously understand enough to be allowed on the level, right? Again, I am not sure what role the lack of training plays on the overall magical effects created.
You say, “There is also a future positive effect on the 3rd and 4th dynamics as a whole if even one person audited OT VII.” This is a nice statement to make but where is the proof of this? I can make the statement that when all the planets align we will collectively ascend into the next plane of consciousness but that doesn’t make it true. Even you start you comment above with the fact there is no LRH reference to support the magical 10,000 on NOTS.
I appreciate your comments. I am playing the devil’s advocate here. I am awaiting your response. Thanks!
Synthia,
I could give you physical universe proof, but only as it applies to me personally. I am not claiming the effects are “magical”. I am only stateing what is true for me from my own observation. All OT VII is designed to do is to free theta. If you believe theta exists in the form of “free theta” or “entheta” and if you have the viewpoint that the axioms etc. are true, then converting entheta to free theta will produce a good effect for youself on all dynamics.
You would have to have some agreement with basic Scientology principals for this to apply, otherwise it is “faith”.
Do I think that people on VII caused anything that has occured on the 3rd or 4th dynamics? No.
As far as my viewpoint on training, I do not think the effects would be more “magical” if people were better trained as I don’t feel the effects are magical at all. I do think people would get through it faster and would also recognize the outpoints in its delivery as I did. (Three swing F/Ns, arbitrary sec-checknig, etc)Also, if they were trained (not GAT robots) they would have a better time of it on the level. As you may be able to tell, I do think auditing works when it is done correctly. As far as them understanding enough to be allowed on the level, yes they understand enough according to current managements requirements. It is only my observation that some don’t quite “get it”. OT VII is a pre OT level. It is still negative gain. The only OTs I have known that could ever demonstate OT abilities were ones that did the very first OT levels pre 1979. (I wish I could do those origional levels)
Regarding future benefits on the 3rd and 4th dynamic, see my comment above. Again though, if you knew the theory it would be clear to you. I will not however, get into that on this web site.
LookDon’tListen,
what abilities did those OTs demonstrate? I’d really like to know. And why didn’t they show these abilities to prove that Scientology works? That would’ve really boomed Scientology, don’t you agree? It doesn’t make sense that Hubbard advised the OTs (assuming they existed) not to show off their powers, why would that discourage anyone? If you invest a lot of time and money (and a healthy dose of idealism) into something, it would be very reassuring that the promised results have been demonstrated by others…
Thank you for this thoughtful answer. Ya know, thinking about your answer, I realize that I still don’t understand why the OT levels have to be confidential. Talk about a hidden data line. Hearing your answer, I just HAVE to believe because I can’t KNOW until I do the OT levels and really “get it” like other people I know who have done them but aren’t demonstrating any OT abilities. It’s really quite sad actually.
Synthia,
In many ways, the hierarchy of knowledge into which the “tech” of scientology is organized is not much different from many other religions to which scientology professes to be superior. There ARE hidden data lines, there ARE things that most followers must accept on faith (such as the effectiveness of the OT levels, the reality of the past track incidents we all run but are not allowed to compare notes on). As a child in the Catholic church, some of the questions I asked the nuns concerning the inconsistencies or illogics I was being asked to accept as part of the Catholic catechism were answered this way: “That is one of the mysteries of the church.”
When you are the recipient of the answer, it’s not much different in practice from “That’s confidential.” Within the culture of scientology, it means you are not among those who know, who understand, who have been enlightened. You are left at a disadvantage, and because in the c of s everyone knows everyone else’s case level, it also means you are LABELED as one of the “unintiated” who really knows what the hell is going on. How many times have you heard this: “Oh, he’s not very high on the bridge?” Or “You just need to do your OT levels and that will be handled/you will understand it/that won’t be an issue anymore.”
lunamoth,
Very well said. The uninitiated are also not really allowed to comment on the lack of OT abilities demonstrated by those who are completing the levels.
I remember one time, at my local org, there was a big important event featuring the first person who completed ‘New OT8″. He came to the org and gave his wins. Though he was/is an extremely kind and caring individual, I recall being very disappointed. His wins for the completion of the level were very mundane. For example, he mentioned to us that one of his wins was that one time someone sent him a fax and that he knew the fax was coming before it arrived and knew exactly who it was from without being told. I thought to myself, “My God, it better get better than this or I am not interested in this at all!” But, of course I stayed in for many, many years after this by coming up with my own reasoning for this outpoint. I decided that he must have been told not to display or talk about his OT abilities because it would be too “out-reality” for us spiritually benighted folks. I reasoned that he must be walking through walls and moving objects with his mind when he was home alone or in the company of his OT friends who would not be startled by such things. This is what I really thought and this is the only way I allowed myself to stay in the game. How magical is that?
Many years ago, when I first was made aware of this target for 10,000 on or through OT VII, I asked, “Why 10,000?” My FSM told me she had “seen the numbers and this is what it will take to really start to handle the planet”. She told me this with that certain “gracious smugness” that someone who is in the know about something really big tends to adopt when they are letting you in on just the smallest little piece of that something. Very Mystical. And this mystical aspect was what she and others I talked to were focused on at the beginning.
But something bothered me about this 10,000 target. I kept thinking about the similarity of this idea to that of the “Ghost Shirts” of some of the native American Sioux tribes many years ago. Some of those desperate people believed at the time that they possessed magic vests that could stop the bullets of the white settlers the Sioux were at war with.
Well, the vests did not stop bullets and many of them died.
But the similarity of the ghost shirts to the 10,000 target rattled around in my mind: No matter their efforts, the beleaguered Sioux were ineffective against the onslaught of the forces around them. And in their turmoil, they assigned a great deal of power to something that really was only a desperate belief. Similarly, after 50 or so years since the release of Dianetics and a lot of dedicated Scn staff working their guts out to calm and restore sanity to the planet, the culture was not markedly improving. Indeed, according to IAS regging, the planet was “going down fast”. Yet here was this aspect of OT VII that was so powerful, so mystical, so magical, that by having less than two millionths of one percent of the population doing the level, it could handle the other 99.9999984%! And whatever supporting evidence there was to bolster this claim certainly could not be divulged due to the the confidential nature of these upper level materials.
If this target number was that important to future of the entire planet, hell I could think of a bunch of ways to get 10,000 people onto the level: How about starting with getting each and every staff member on it? If anyone deserved it, THEY certainly did, and probably the experience of getting service from happier staff would be overall happier for public as well. Or how about opening up OT VII service centers in the major cities where a lot of people were auditing on the level, so they didn’t have to disrupt their lives, careers and families every 6 months to go to Clearwater, Florida? In other words, make it easy to get a lot of people on the level and make it easy for them to stay on and complete the level.
Observable evidence of how this 10,000 target has been being managed for over ten years clearly points to the real target: “Get 10,000 fully paying public people coming to, and continually paying a lot of money to, Flag, by getting them on to, and staying busy with, for many years, OT VII.”
Alas, you can’t state THAT target in broad daylight because it goes against the altruistic planet-saving mystical sales pitch used to get people to Flag. Yet, the sordid truth of the real target is as evident as the decade-long attempt to achieve it.
In later years, the mystical aspect was played down and the focus went onto how many OT 7s and 8s were joining staff, or heading up “expansion activities”. Indeed, it appeared to me that one practically couldn’t complete the level without joining staff somewhere.
Maybe, as LookDon’tListen says, one would have to do this level to understand the effects on the 3rd and 4th dynamics, and granted, I have not done the level. I don’t begrudge LDL or anyone the personal benefits of doing something that improves their own or others’ lives.
But if it is true that “the only slightest chance this universe has is getting enough people up to and through these upper levels”, then clearly, how OT VII is being pitched and sold and managed, the fate of the entire universe is less important than keeping the coffers brimming at Flag.
Boy, you said it. Is the world ending? Perhaps that should elicit a “change in operating basis” from the church? You know, put emphasis on delivering auditing rather than on selling lectures? Just a thought.
Wow John Doe…you hit the nail on the head here. If 10,000 people on Solo NOTs was REALLY the target, it would have been done by now. When upper management wants something done, it gets done, simple. It’s all about the dough. Man, I bought all the sales pitches for so long. Was this ever an altruistic organization that had the salvation of mankind as its sole objective?
THAT is the million dollar question, isn’t it?
I have to answer this. My Life was sooo magical before I joined Scientology. Just a magical, adventure with new surprises at every turn.
And then I got into Scn, and life was not magical anymore. It was about Thursdays at 2 and numbers.
I am very happy to say that I now have my magical thinking back again, and life has become and adventure again.
Oh, Nancy, so true! I make my own deadlines now, and if life intervenes with something that pushes my goal back a bit, so be it. Be the rock…let the water flow around you. To force the water through the rock takes too long!
Wrongly assigning cause to good things is so rampant in the CoS since so little good things occur there.
Classical, old world “Magick” with a “K” is central to L. Ron Hubbard’s formulation of Scientology. LRH studied Thelema, the central dictum of which is, “Do as thou will shall be the whole of the law.” Restated, a thetan is to make postulates that stick. Being at cause over the physical universe is the common DNA in Thelema and Scientology.
Also central to Thelema and Scientology is the ritual banishing, or exorcism, of demonic and parasitic energies that drain the life force. In context, exorcism would be understood as negative case gain. Therefore, the actual OT levels, or positive case gain, do not occur until OT IX. Marty Rathbun has stated that these levels do not exist and were fictions of Pat Broeker. Therefore, Scientology begins and ends in negative case gain. This is why CoS has never, and will never, produce an enlightened Spiritual Master recognized as such by the World. There has never been a figure such as the Dalia Lama to emerge from any branch of Scientology. Why is this? It is because Scientology is Magick and thus focuses upon the acquisition of worldly power and wealth to the exclusion of compassion, mercy, love, or Spiritual Enlightenment.
In terms of Thelema, the Magickal Adept does as he wills to do. His earlier spiritual work of banishing elementals and training his Will has freed him; he has no barriers between his intention and execution. The physical universe and other people align to his powerful Will and Intentions.
Should any barriers arise, the Magickal Adept has a wide array of curses and spells to use against his enemies. CoS is more practical here and uses OSA. However, early on LRH suggested that OT’s had spiritual power to knock hats off people’s heads, thus intimating a greater power to harm. In the 1980’s, I heard the persistent claim in CoS that an OT could kill a person with just a look. This is evocative of the “Evil Eye.”
The connections between Scientology and Magick are numerous and evident.In Hubbard’s 1951 tape “Electropyschometric Scouting: Battle of the Universes” we listen as LRH and Mary Sue chase an entity with an e-meter: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=L0MY2IM9
Solo auditing can be seen as a “Solo Metered Seance” viz a viz the Spiritism of the 19th century upon which part of Thelema, and hence Scientology, is based. There is nothing inherently wrong with Scientology studying the Paranormal if it declares it as such. Hubbard, however, insisted that what he was doing was Science. This is where his discontinuity with Culture began.
/////
God almighty, Swift, there’s where the sociopathic /sociopathetic) and cultish traits in the subject of SCN are rooted? Halleluja!!
Thanks for pointing that out, — gives me food for thought and reminds me to the required “brutal honesty with the subject and its results” Jeff pointed out the other day. Fidelio
Scientology is a 10-Course Feast of Magic that never passes the smell test and always leaves you hungry.
Appetizers, cheesy fruit platters, mystery soups, tossed salads, mixed vegetables, bread fillers, hot entrée, cool sides, sweet desserts, and a bowl of Magic Nuts at the finish.
Appetizers are ordered by the customer. From there on Management orders for the customer to relieve the bloat of decisions and indigestion of choices.
A smorgasbord for every taste palette, served by grinning ghosts, explaining ever changing menus and hinting at secret, special ingredients you can Only get at Alice’s Restaurant.
Here’s where the logic in this magical thinking breaks down. If what is represented from Barbara is true, then logic would dictate the opposite would be true, too. Both sides of the same magical coin.
Perhaps the tragedy in the Gulf is because of all the poor case gain that’s been building over the years with all the alterations made by DM! Just as the Berlin wall coming down “might” have occurred because of all the positive case gain of those OTs, pehaps staring at the emeter by the examiners waiting for that third swing of the “F/N” needle , leading to red tags and a negative gain, “might” have contributed to the devastation in the oceans (or whatever else that’s gone awry) we are witnessing today!
Hmmm…… seems I recall a definition of “resposibility” and assuming such on all dynamics (not merely the happy stuff). See how crazy this becomes when a little critical thinking and gut-level honest questioning is applied? Selective, subjective causes and effects, impossible to determine and connect those dots. Just an opinion.
Ha! Wickedly good, Mickey.
Somewhere along your line of reasoning I saw envisioned “the faithful’s” eyes glazing over and real communication totally shutting down as the thought stoppers slammed into place and the church-installed circuitry became activated.
It’s too bad that many church members would never get to the end of that chain of thought with critical thinking skills still engaged.
Oh my God – that thread really gets to me, Mickey and Luna! ROTFLMAO
Is it the magic of my birthday which is today that “I pull in” all that fun??
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DEAR FIDELIO!!
kisses and hugs
lunamoth
Thank you, Luna, thank you very much!!! Kisses and hugs to you, too!! 🙂
Fidelio
Mickey,
Very good point!
When I was on staff in the Sea Org we were “briefed” about the Berlin wall coming down. We were also briefed that the ED of Hamburg Org had, date coincident, completed the PTS/SP course on the Ship. The implication was that there was direct, causal connection between the two events. Everyone looked around with “knowing smiles” on their faces. Of course, that explains it. Cults, you gotta love them.
LOL, Fidelio
Scientology and critical thinking is a conflict of interest as are any in-house-only “testing and evaluations”.
The Gulf of Mexico is a buffet of seafood. Recently NOAA stated any seafood at your grocery or restaurant is safe to eat.
However, we locals happen to know that testing of same relies on if it passes the Smell Test! That’s right. There are people trained to smell the food for oil and if their nostrils are pleased and tickled, it’s served up as safe. There is no chemical analysis or testing for the oil and no mention whatsoever about the special seasoning of toxic dispersants.
So it comes down to who or what is conducting any data analysis or test, what are the criteria, methods and is there a conflict of interest that consumers should know about.
The only exception are industries of Magic, Religion, and maybe the IRS, all of which stink to high heaven and are steeped in low self interest.
I should add it is now the Seller of the Product, the fishing industry, busy on demanding better testing and provide evidence to consumers it really is safe. Consumers were allowed to say No thanks and not punished or stalked for it or made to buy it anyway at the new higher prices.
The OT’s were not responsible for the Berlin wall coming down! It was the postulates of many people on the planet that finally came to light. All people on this planet have Theta abilities.
I have always had great abilities to make things go right since I was a child. Doing OT V just made those abilities easier and faster to achieve by getting rid of the “vias” in my way. It is not “Cause Over Life” like it is being advertised to be. Someone has an MU on what that means or is twisting the meaning to promote something it is not.
I agree that if someone is trained and understands what the these Levels actually are, the results are wonderful and enhance the abilities of the person doing them to the degree of what the person’s sphere of influence actually is. Everyone is different and I believe that Training is 50 percent of the gains and that understanding the OT Levels do require actual auditor training.
Again, everyone on the planet has these abilities, they are not privy to Scientologist. The reasons why some can use them better than others is explained in the Technology. The actual Technology is an explanation and applications to” improve” abilities, that’s it, no magic involved.
If a person is happy with his abilities and his use of them the way they are, then so be it.
But if a person wants to improve his abilities, then why begrudged him for doing so?
It wasn’t anyone’s “theta postulates” that brought the Berlin Wall down, it was a lot of actual actions and activities by a lot of people that made it possible.
I’d be interested in your definition of “Cause Over Life.”
Me thinks a more accurate describing would be “Cause Over Your Responses to Life”. This aligns with the idea expressed by Victor Frankel you referenced earlier, me thinks as well…..
Jeff, thanks again!
it WAS a lot of actual actions and activities by a LOT of people. Of course, they were motivated by strong intentions which were stronger than the counter-intentions of the few vested interested sociopaths opposing.
It’s like “the wall” the CoS and Dm have erected. It takes a lot of a c t i o n s and a c t i v i t i e s by a LOT of people to bring it down.
Q.E.D. Fidelio
Jeff,
Ok, let me re-phase. Many people postulated from all over the world that wall needed to come down, even if they never personally got involved in the actions or activity of doing it. When enough people have agreement, actions start to happen. The consideration (postulate) came before the actions. I call it Theta, but for the sake of argument, lets call it a pro-survival consideration for our fellow man. And yes, good postulates from the people of earth towards their fellow man doesn’t always bear fruit or it takes years to happen. This is usually because there is something going wrong in the actions and activities that followed the postulate. Sometimes through trial and error the activities get straightened out and sometimes they get sabotaged. I believe in the abilities of the spirit of man, you may not, but either way, people do postulate for the betterment of mankind. I think we can agree on that.
My definition of Cause Over Life? Well….that would take me explaining what NED is, all the data that is studied on it and what I actually experienced on it. I rather not do that due to the fact it is unreal to some and I don’t want to get off into disagreements.
But I will say, you are not going to be able to cause everything in your life, or others lives, to go the way you want at all times and your body is still MEST and it will still age and die.
Completely get that idea out of your mind and then look at it again. NED is a Level that handles a specific area that is solo audited to an EP of “Cause Over Life”, which you are now cause over and have no need to audit it anymore.
The EP is not “I can now cause everything to go my way in life”, or “I am Cause Over Everything In Life”.
Cause Over “Life”. …What does this specific Level handle? Do you follow?
Mickey,
good point: Cause Over Your Responses To Life. Like that. Fidelio
Sure. whether you call it postulates or will or desire or wishes, people wanted the wall down. But it wasn’t their postulates or wishes that brought the wall down, it was their actions. Sure, you could say if they never had that wish or desire in the first place, it would not have happened. Sure. But it was because they did something, not because they wished it.
As to your explanation of NOTs – no I don’t get it, sorry. It just sounds, to my uninitiated and unenlightened mind, like a lot of doubletalk. If a level is supposed to make you Cause Over Life, then I would think, possibly naively, that at the end of it you would be Cause Over Life.
“We will fully exploit the superstitious belief of people in prophesy.”
— L. Ron Hubbard, HCO PL October 28, 1960, “New Testing Promotion Section”
R. Hill,
It seems to me that the HCOPL’s are how things ended up the way they did. Now I am forced to dig up my OEC Vols, which I have never been interested in and hate reading, and look up the HCOPL policy you referenced and read the whole context to see what you are trying to imply.
This is what organizational policy leads to most of the time:
Know Best Big Church Organization, Know Best Big Government, Know Best Politicians…all ends up the same….CONTROL OF THE MASSES and LOSS OF FREEDOM. 3rd Dynamic aberration is worse than the 2nd Dynamic aberration in my opinion.
You’re probably right, It’s Me Again – I had not looked at it because I have another
datum in its place, that 2nd dyamic abberration is the worst! HA! That one came from a third dynamic !!
Thanks for helping me blow that remaining chunk of stinky stuff out of the machinery!
lunamoth
Seems to me that any abberation that involved more people or more life than some other abberation could potentially be more damaging to life and the enjoyment of it.
Thus, a 4th dynamic abberation would probably be worse than a 3rd dynamic abberation, etc.
Luna,
LOL. Fidelio
Gee, Hill, the more you LOOK, the more the root of the mess becomes visible. Fidelio
lunamoth,
I just wanted to clear up my statement. It is only from my personal experience that there is more aberration on the 3rd D than on the 2nd D. I am sure that there are those who are living a life of terror or insanity on the 2nd D who would disagree. These people probably can’t even look at the 3rd D. It is all subjective.
From my perspective, the more rules and laws there are for a 3rd D activity, the less freedoms there are for the group members. I understand that there have to be laws to protect the group members and there has to be agreement on how the group operates but too much policy and laws can become a means to control the group by well spoken leaders with good speech writers using surveys or polls to push “group agreement” buttons for their agendas for whatever sick POWER and CONTROL needs they have.
I think being in a group is fine as long as you can maintain your own perspective and identity and not get into collective agreement with all the collective thinking going around. Unfortunately, this is not always easy for those who need groups and opinion leaders to a point were this is all their life encompasses. It becomes easier to just believe the propaganda that the new laws or policies are for the good of the collective and will help achieve the groups goals. After all, the leaders know better than the members, now do they?
You can look on these sites and see it happening in these groups. Marty says–xyand z—so it must be true or asking for Marty’s opinion on a 2D…some people have to have an opinion leader, they will trade one for another and this is the road to loss of self in any group. (If you are reading this Marty, in no way am I saying this is what you intended, I really know nothing about you.)
Once any group, the church, governments, countries start passing laws for the “good of the collective”, each individual in the group starts giving up their personal freedoms. This is why I think the 3rd D has been and still is a very abberated dynamic, it can result in the loss of freedoms for so many by the clever plans of the few.
Investigate, Investigate, Investigate for yourself any law or policy of any group. Is the benefit of that law worth the loss of personal freedoms? Is the law or policy cleverly written so those who are writing it can have more power over you? Do the people writing the laws or policies think they are your opinion leaders and know better than you?
Again, you are a smart cookie lumamoth. Maintain your viewpoints from outside any group and don’t get caught up in the collective think of it all. All is not well in Scientology or planet earth. There are always those who will use the weakness of man to enslave man through a smile and a well written speech and then there are those who will always fight for the rights of mankind.
I think you are a fighter, am I right?
It’s Me Again,
Thank you for the kind word about my cookies. : )
I just meant that you’re right, the third dynamic is often an area of greater source of craziness than the second, at least, is seems so from my own life. And I assume it’s probably true for many posting on this site, since that is almost exclusively the subject matter being discussed here.
lunamoth
I see a lot of magical thinking in the PTS/SP tech.
Heather,
Me too. A good observation. Can you expound on this s’il vous plait? I would be quite interested in your perception here.
Synthia, sure!
When something goes wrong – a person gets sick or has a car accident or stats are flatlining – rather than look at the logical possibilities as to the range of causes, a witch hunt is initiated to find the SP. (The hunt for the Why is similar.)
This reminds me of primitive tribes who kill or punish or shun one of their own people, in the mistaken belief that, if they do so, the drought will break or the sick child will recover or the crop will grow, or whatever.
It’s illogical and it’s simplistic – as if there’s just one cause of the problem and once the human cause has been dealt with there’s no reason to reflect any further for other causes.
Causation can be complex. Perhaps the person is sick because they badly need some sleep and a good holiday, their immune system is suppressed due to poor diet and exhaustion, they didn’t get a flu shot this year, there’s an especially nasty strain of virus about and their lungs were already in trouble due to the black mould growing on the wall of their apartment.
Causation can be simple and unavoidable (without the ability to tell the future). eg. The other driver was in the wrong. Nothing you did contributed to the accident. You just happened to be there at the wrong time.
I know LRH said that all illness and goof ups are caused by being PTS. I’m sorry. Your illness might be caused by another person, but not just because they have a different point of view to you. It’ll be because they carried the germ that infected you or because they are such a “toxic” personality that the stress of dealing with them contributed to you getting run down, or… A person can be resolutely opposed to what you hold dear, but that doesn’t make them contagious. To think otherwise is just superstition.
Now, I have stated those views quite baldly. I don’t mean to insult anybody in doing so. As a Christian myself, I’m used to people saying that what I believe is rubbish. So, I don’t disrespect somebody who believes in the PTS/SP tech. I just think it is magical thinking that ignores the logical options.
❤ H
Debating the values of beliefs is entirely fair in my views, I don’t see this as being “disrespectful,” of course as long as one can offer honest arguments.
I make the distinction between beliefs that are potential breeding ground for abuses and those that are neutral or inoffensive. For me, SP/PTS is such a dangerous belief, a potential breeding ground leading to abuses. I think the same about Heaven/Hell (I will always remember that pamphlet that landed in my mailbox, telling me that being honest is not good enough to qualify for Heaven, one needs to have “Faith”), or even “karma.”
These are all excellent tools for social ostracism (itself a mean of control), and they have been used as such. I consider SP/PTS to be one of the worst though. Many other disreputable Scientology doctrines actually are rooted in that single one doctrine (fair game, sec check, etc.), which itself I see as a reflection of Hubbard’s intolerance to dissent.
Humans are social animals, and thus natural candidates to resort to social ostracism. Problem is when some worldviews *emphasize and nurture* this destructive trait of human nature (or any other destructive traits for that matter.)
Jeff,
Don’t you know it’s not nice to tell children that Santa doesn’t actually exist?
🙂
Barbara says:
“Per calculations done when the target was first launched it was estimated that these OTs, now Cause Over Life or close to it, would produce a large enough volume of field activity to get all orgs to Saint Hill size and consequently bring about the release of New OT IX and X. It was a mathematical equation, all extrapolated out.”
I thought the game had changed to creation of Idle Orgs and donations to it. Isn’t the creation of St Hill size orgs and LRH Birthday game now historical and no longer used? Is Barbara mixing practices?
Sinar,
It occurred to me, too, that the St. Hill-sized org target is still being promoted as the point at which
IX and X can be released, but they’re just not actually working toward it anymore. It’s dm’s way of
insuring he never has to actually come up with the levels, and that he never loses the use of this very useful “carrot.”
lunamoth
Excellent post and discussion. I have much to contribute but I’ll start with just a couple of things.
When I read Barbara Dews email in my inbox, and I get tons of emails of this sort from her, it made me want to gag and vomit. These exact same lines, exact same quotes,same lines of “reasoning” have been used over and over, year after year for over 20 years now, on the Scientology public and especially on OTs. Part of Barbara’s email, which Jeff didn’t mention, included that quote “..at any one time on earth there were not more than about 10,000 people capable of a little leading or steering…” from one of the PDC tapes. It’s been used by the IAS since at least the ’80s to registrate people and make them feel special. I myself, as an IAS reg back in ’90, used to keep it in my briefcase to pull out. Then, must be about 10 or more years now, the magic 10,000 calculation was “discovered” and Flag and FSMs started using that quote to close public for OTVll. Anything to make you feel that you are part of this special 10,000 people capable of a little leading or steering..if you bought, if you donated, if you joined staff, routed into the SO, you automatically ARE one of these special 10,000.
I always wondered..”What about the 5000 SO members there are?..aren’t THEY really part of the 10,000?” and what about all the non scientologists out there who are quite capable of” leading and steering people”? . In fact, isn’t EVERYONE capable of a “little leading or steering”? Gimme a break. Never made much sense to me to keep pulling out that quote to get people’s money out of them or get them to join staff, at the risk of not being “included” in this special 10,000. Barf.
That said, I must, in all honesty, confirm one thing that Barbara said as the undeniable truth..she wrote “..we are seeing more and more major, planet-changing type activity every single week, with mid-New OT VIIs and New OT VIIIs as one of the major thrusts behind all of these advances.” Yup, the more people auditing on OTVll and completing OTVlll., the more the public are becoming aware of the truth behind Scientology and exiting in droves.. Now that IS a major, planet-changing advancement!!!! Works like magic too….
Sherry
You’re funny. : ))
The entire email is a string of hackneyed phrases, worn thread-bare by constant use over these many years.
It’s like a quilt made by cutting up old garments and sewing the pieces together. If you remember all those old shirts and dresses, you can see their pieces in the new creation and it no longer looks new at all.
Interesting, this “10,000” number. Pierre Ethier discusses this very concept on his site re a whole track implant.
upperbridge.org
Sherry, wonderful 🙂
Sherry,
Thanks, that explains quite a bit on the rationalization for the 10K figure. Had always wondered about that.
It’s amazing how “LRH” can be pushed around, inducted, extrapolated and transformed into these non-LRH approved apparitions/games such as the IAS itself!
Jeff,
I am not going to get into a debate about the consideration a group has about wanting something done and then the actions that follow the considerations.
My point was is that I believe that everyone has abilities to consider that something needs to happen and then activities, actions or whatever follows that decision that makes it happen. It is not just because you are a Scientologist on NED that makes you now endowed with something that the rest of humanity doesn’t have. All NED does is get rid of those vias that hinder ones ability to make a direct decision or consideration without all the think, doubt, questioning, etc. that hinders one’s ability to make things go right.
Uninitiated and unenlightened mind? What the frack is that suppose to mean? I think this is about the 2nd or 3rd time you have taken my comments as an attack on you personally.
I cannot explain what Cause Over Life means in terms that most would understand. It is not that I think you or others have an uninitiated and unenlightened mind. From reading your story, I don’t think you have done NED, so how can I explain something to you or anyone else in a few words what the EP of that action is without the person doing the action itself? There may be people who have finished NED who still don’t understand what that EP meant, who knows? Management doesn’t seem to care because the “You can now cause everything in life to happen at will” slogan, that everyone thinks it is, is an easy sell for the church.
The crashing MU is the word “Life” in the EP. This in no way sells NED short. Once a person actually has the EP, their postulates, considerations, decisions, viewpoint etc. are more under their control and decisions and actions move from A to B much faster.
Disclaimer: This is my viewpoint only. If you have done NED or heard about NED and disagree, that is ok with me. The Grade Chart is not something that is to be shoved down everyone’s throat.
It’s me again,
I do believe that there is good connected to auditing. The point that is being made here IMHO is that it is grossly over PR’d and used as a carrot to dangle in front of people to get them to “BUY NOW!!” This church has taken spirituality and made it like some kind of Starbucks coffee brand. Buy your next 12 1/2 hours of BIG MACS and pay till it hurts because your “immortality is at stake”.
Yes, I do believe in postulates and intention. I just don’t think you need to crash your dynamics for the “magic” that is promised. They should keep the prices within reason of what they deliver. Also you talk about NED. Do you mean New Era Dianetics or NED for OTs? I was on OT7 and I think it could be good if they didn’t screw it all up by using their J. Edgar Hoover methods of creating a dossier on you and trying to squeeze every penny out of you. How about if you paid a few bucks and then audit the level and them leave you the hell alone unless you need some help?? Instead of being so worried about thursday at 2:00 and cutting everyone’s throat to get the stats up, how about caring about people and making sure they are winning?? Pretty boy has enough money for now doesn’t he??
I agree with you Tony. It is all a dog and pony show now and it has all been carefully planed out as a money making machine now. I am talking about the EP of solo NED, Cause Over Life..see my response to Jeff.
It’s Me:
I understand you’re tiptoeing around the subject a bit so as not to violate confidentiality, and I respect that. While I only got up to IV, I do have some familiarity with the NOTs materials and what is done on the level. So let me try to explain my viewpoint, without violating confidentiality, and in terms that can be understood whether one has done the level or not.
The word “life” has a common English meaning, which is “the general or universal condition of human existence,” or “living things collectively,” or “the animate existence or period of animate existence of an individual.” When one says “Cause Over Life,” one would normally understand this to mean “cause over existence,” or “cause over living things.”
The OT Levels, after III, deal with a specific aspect, shall we say, of life. I believe what you are saying, correct me if I’m wrong, is that what “Cause Over Life” means to someone on or through OT VII, is cause over that specific aspect of life.
However, that particular definition or understanding of that phrase is only revealed on the level itself. So one could argue that it’s somewhat of a bait and switch. The bait being the common English understanding of the phrase Cause Over Life (and how else is someone going to interpret it if they don’t know what’s on the level?). Then when one is on the level, one comes to understand that it’s cause over a specific aspect or subsection or phenomenon of life (and I’m being deliberately vague here).
Great point Jeff.
Another case of overselling the product . And wouldn’t this tend to be a let down to the “consumer” who early on thought that it meant one thing and then find out they really meant something else. A true bait and switch. Why didn’t they just call it “Cause over the type of case you are handling.” ? But it sounds so grandiose that it gets all the people “lower” on the bridge frothing a the mouth.
Oh my god. Is that true? Is there a redefinition of the word “life” used in the e.p. of that level? Now, that’s a direct question, and requires no revelations of confidential material to answer it. Anybody? In the e.p. of NOT’s, is a definition of “life” used that is not the usual, English language definition, or one that someone lower on the bridge would not normally be expected to understand that word to mean?
lunamoth
Yes Jeff, that is it.
If anyone really thinks about it, each level of the Bridge handles a specific area. The auditing is tailored to handle that area and get the person, with the help of auditing, to “look” into that specific area. The person realizes things (cogs) until he knows he is not the effect of the “stuff” that lessened his abilities in that area anymore (wins) and comes to understands he can now better handle that area himself (EP).
NED is the same thing, the same Tech is used on the lower Bridge as the upper Bridge but the auditing is tailor to another dynamic.
I think bait and switch is a kind way of putting it. I would say this is a deliberate misuse of an ability gained for that Level that is not only used to get people to buy a lie “you can be cause over everything in life” but gives some people a hidden standard while they are doing the Level setting them up for failure.
Now you know why it was easy to get the OT VII’s to do OT VII again. They church plants hidden standards in the promotion of NED, that are not attainable on this Level, and then promotes doing it over again to obtain the same hidden standard in the new promotion. Now I hear that if you are not getting your hidden standard, you need your Objectives re-done. This is why so many are falling off the upper part of the Bridge.
I don’t know what the materials are on OT VI but after doing OT V, over 10 years ago, I had a understanding of what Cause Over Life meant and understood that being able to do that in” actual terms ” would be a great ability to have.
And yes, all you people who were writing under Signs of Success, people can be fooled and fooling them on something like this is beyond contempt.
I feel compelled to get into this conversation. If what you are saying I’m Me Again is true, then I have to say a BIG “F’ck me” to myself. In a thousand years, until yesterday when I was talking to Jeff about your “Cause over Life” interpretation, would I have thought to think of “life” the way you’ve “defined” it. Not only that, having done the entire bridge thru New OTVlll and a lot of it more than once, I can say that NO ONE, not one D of P, one reg, one Flag tech terminal, not one public that I know nor one ship terminal including the Sr. C/S Margaret Supack has interpreted the word “life” like you have.
However, and interestingly enough, that interpretation of the definition of “life” is the ONLY thing that makes any sense as far as what is actually attained on OTV thru OTVll as far as any real “ability” goes. Yup..I sure can control an auditing session and the “stuff” I’m auditing. Terrific.
And I have to say that it kinda, not a little bit, has me jaw-struck, mouth-gaped and all that just thinking about it in this fashion. Where you came up with this interpretation I’d enjoy knowing, but I think you would be the rare person who looks at it like this. One can’t simply redefine “life” to mean the stuff you’re auditing on OTlll thru OTVll and especially NOT STATE such somewhere. I’m not buying it. Bait and Switch indeed.
To clarify for the rest of you reading this, to say that an OTVll comp is “Cause over Life” because he can now (supposedly) be cause over the “stuff” he has audited is like saying that a Class Xll auditor is “Cause over Life” because he can handle any PC. Probably that is a lot more accurate too.
This is what I paid all those hundreds of thousands of dollars to attain? I don’t think so…and if that’s what I bought into..then again “F’ck Me!”.
Geez louise.
Lunamoth,
Absolutely not! There is no special definition of “life” ANYWHERE in any materials of OTV, OTVl, OTVll or OTVlll..none. This is only speculation and interpretation of It’s Me Again. But, like I say above, an interesting interpretation as there is no EP that is attained of “Cause over Life”…”Life” being defined per the dictionary and everyone’s understanding of it’s meaning. That EP can only be explained in terms of the cryptic “secrets” of what you audit on OTlll and above. Not valid in my opinion.
It’s Me Again’s take on why it’s easy to keep selling us OTV-Vllls the same bridge over and over again is spot on..it’s because we all know that we haven’t attained “Cause Over Life” per the actual definition and per what any person would normally think it means.
Cause over “Life” – It all has to do with your expectations.
The OT levels have been described as dealing with “living lightning, the very stuff of life itself.”
I understood exactly what I was auditing and I wanted to become cause over it.
When I completed OT VII many years ago, I achieved the EP I had been seeking and became cause over that which I had been auditing. It is an End Phenomena that must be experienced to be fully appreciated.
It also had the unexpected benefit of allowing me to recognize whether others had made it or not.
As a result, I was totally unsympathetic to any efforts to get me back on the level and “redo” it for the Miscavige EP.
Believe me, being cause over my OT case is worth the effort and study I put into attaining it. It is a pity that the CofS is no longer able to deliver that result.
Sherrymk
Thanks for a direct answer : )
I’m sorry to tell you folks but you are doomed! CoS won’t take you back into its ranks.
You’ve just violated at least 15 of 30 some pages of Suppressive Acts (including invalidating and denigrating Clear and OT states).
You are (and I declare you all, myself included) all Suppressive Persons.
That much is for you eternity. Pack your sh*t, folks!
Be wiser next time, next lifetime, next planet!
LOL!
LOL!! Fidelio
LOL Vad.
What can I say? Uh – “Oh, no.”
Lunamoth,
There is no written definition of “life” in the Solo NOTs material. ItsMeAgain was giving his/her viewpoint of the EP. Unless youv’e actually seen the EP sheet in Qual or are an EP Checker, or Solo NOTs C/S, any idea of the EP is just that, an idea. ItsMeAgains opinion may be correct, but nothing like it is stated in the materials. Be careful of verbal data.
LookDon’tListen,
First of all, thank you very much for answering my question, and for your concern that I don’t get any bad data/mistake opinion for “tech,” etc.
But I just have to say, this whole thing is so nuts. “Secret” e.p.’s, hidden data lines, words that may or may not mean what you thought they did when you signed up, everybody getting but not really getting the same results from a cookie-cutter program of auditing out the same bloody things on multiple levels of “O.T.” levels, O.T. phenomena that is but isn’t a real, objective and observable experience.
I am beyond exasperated. I understand the desire to not discuss “confidential” materials, but I am also experiencing this thread become completely obfuscated to me and any hope of me participating completely shutting down while “the grownups” spell out their words and talk “around” the subject being discussed.
In normal, civilized society, this is right up there with whispering in front of your guests, speaking in front of another in a language they don’t understand, or passing notes. Come on! I have no need to be “protected” from the “confidential materials,” and I’m right here in the room. If you can’t or won’t spell out what the hell you’re talking about in front of the rest of us, please have a private conversation.
Luna,
EXACTLY!
Fidelio
I realized something today that now seems rather obvious.
I kept thinking why would people sell their souls for their integrity to stay “good Scientologists” when the info of all the abuse is so available and convincing and now being told by very credible people? My answer is that quite a few Scios have little or no life and/or they desperately want “hope” that there is something more to life than “reality”. This hope is extremely valuable to them. Because if they lose it then they are just like all the “wogs” out there. They would have to confront that Earth is what it is and that maybe you can be better but there is not a Nirvana coming where you will be able to sit on a pink cloud and “get away” from this reality.
I personally enjoy getting auditing. But I now look at it as a way to improve my tone and analyse things and have no real expectations of all the promised “OT Phenomena”. Maybe it is attainable, but I will not buy into any of the fanatacism connected to the subject until I see someone who can “read a book while asleep” or “handle a war from afar”. If the subject was delivered with just a few more clicks toward the everyday man and woman, I think everyone would be a lot happier.
Anyways, there are those who will sell their soul and integrity to keep that hope alive. I feel they are sort of sad people. I used to be one of them. But I can actually say that auditing helped me to overcome these fixed ideas and I got that despite the koolaide drinkers trying to run their bad control on me. I think LRH had a good idea and then it went off the rails along the way. Let’s see if it can calm down and take a deep breath and get real. I will let the fanatics worry about “target 2” for now.
🙂
Tony
Tony,
The problem is that most public who go off lines and then come back once in a while for a service don’t know what is going on in management. It’s a well hidden secret!
You can look at the Orgs and see what I am talking about. The public person doesn’t want to come in but can’t figure out why, they want to help the Org but they avoid the Org, they want to come in and take a course, but, well they don’t quite know why they don’t. Their phone rings and they see” Church of Scientology” and wonder.. how much is picking up that phone going to cost me?
No matter what the Church says, most of their public are these types of people and that is why the Orgs are empty. These are not the fanatics that operate solely on the 3rd D. These people have a life outside the church.
So until one day when you turn on the news and the breaking news is flashing ” David Miscavige, COB of the COS, charge with stealing billions in church donations for personal use” with pictures of his jet, personal trainer, hair dresser, gym, mansion, motorcycles, girlfriend etc. flashing on all news channels, reaching that public is a slow process.
Tony,
You are so funny! lol
Ya know, my emotions and perceptions of those “still in” have run the gamut. I have called people brainwashed, blind, criminal, etc. All of these are emotional responses partly brought about by the fact that I was precisely at that same place a mere 9 months ago.
Today I read what I thought to be a very sane and, to me, quite true synopsis of the scene in regards to those still in the church. This is the excerpt from David LaCroix’s piece called Pyrrhic Victory for Scientology:
“So how can such an unpopular and ill regarded regime sustain its grip on and control of the organization? Are scientologists so thoroughly brainwashed they can’t see how bad they look?
The answer to the first question is the subject of this article. The grip is in fact slipping fast.
The answer to the second question is yes…and no. As with many things in life you could say “it’s complicated”. Saying yes, they are “brainwashed” is an oversimplification and only secondarily true. They act as-if they were brainwashed in many cases but that is more a symptom of the fact they’ve been lied to and viciously betrayed. The bigger reason and better answer is that they just don’t know whats going on. The fatal flaw most scientologists have fallen prey to is they will not expose themselves to most of the press and Internet information available. A calculated abuse of a long obsolete internal cultural paranoia and siege mentality held over from the days the organization was small…and WAS under attack. They also don’t know their organization is run by a single, absolute-power tyrant. A study of the policies left by the founder of scientology L Ron Hubbard, reveals he left specific and detailed instructions for an organizational system of checks and balances that included a self-correcting mechanism. Most scientologists “assume” THAT management structure and those policies are in place and the organization is currently operating on them. If you know the saying “assumption is the mother of all F’ups” then you have a better understanding of why and how. The church has been an absolute dictatorship for over 2 decades and until recently only a handful of church executives knew it.”
Here is the link to the story in its entirety:
http://freeheber.com/index.php?title=Pyrrhic_Victory_For_Scientology
I think this “why” brings us closer and does open the door to a handling. Thoughts anyone?
Love, Synthia
Hi Synthia!!
🙂
Tony
Tony and Synthia,
I have too little time right now to respond appropriately, but have been thinking about this thread (and comments like yours above) the last day or so.
I have so much empathy for those who are newly out of the Co$. There is so much to consider. So much to re-examine. So many moving parts to take apart and put together again in new patterns that are more coherent. So many moving parts that are “left over” that don’t seem to fit with new, different patterns you’re now recognizing and trying out. And the patterns you see next month will surely be different than the ones you’re seeing now.
I haven’t been on lines since the late 1980s. That’s over twenty years on the outside. And back then it was only about one-fourth (everybody gets to choose their own fraction if they don’t agree with this one) as bizarre as it is right now. Therefore, I’ve had so much time to deal with all this.
To the topic of this particular blog (magical thinking), I expect most visitors here agree that the Co$ is a uniquely twisted place. However, there’s “magical thinking” and there’s “bad logic” and there’s “Gnostic beliefs” and there’s “spooky action at a distance” (as someone else here mentioned) and more things, too, that visitors to this blog are commenting on. Speaking just for myself, I think it is an error to equate all these things with each other.
After twenty-plus years off lines, I find the topics and issues and concepts Scientology addresses to be as germane to my life as ever. Those topics, issues and concepts are still as fascinating and central to my life as a human being (or spiritual being or thetan or consciousness or …) as they ever were. I expect for most people who were ever interested in such things, our fascination with these things does not go away because we were betrayed by an organization, individuals or a movement.
Anyway, I am only really saying I know you’ll sort all this out for yourself – in a way that works for you. There is no “arrival point.” There is no “answer in the back of the book.” There is no book. There’s only a blank page and a pen and you.
Love,
Just Me
Just Me,
Thanks for reminding me. 🙂
Seriously, you said a mouthful there. There IS no book, and I it is one of my best realizations after leaving the influence of the c of s. It’s exciting and fun again, because it’s MY story again, not some plot over which I have no creative control and in which I am a minor character.
Who wants to live by a book, anyway? Not me.
love
lunamoth
Well said Just Me!! Spoken like a true philosopher.
🙂
Brilliant.
Only a blank page, a pen and you.
A wonderful reminder that at the end of the day — your life is up to you.
Thanks
Just Me
Tony,
Thanks for sharing that insight. It may be obvious in hindsight but I hadn’t thought of it either. It reminded me of people I know who were failing in life prior to finding Scientology, and they may conceive that leaving the church would mean going back to a life of failure. And it explains the attitude of many who look with smug superiority at all the crap going on in the ‘wog’ world. If they left the church they could no longer pretend that they were not also part of that same world.
Perhaps fortuitously I have always looked at Scientology not as an alternative to the ‘wog’ world but as a set of tools to deal with the world, and life in general. Some of the tools I still use daily. Some of the tools have been broken. And sadly the church, the keeper of the toolbox, has been broken beyond repair.
Hi Aeolus,
Nice comments.
As far as the church being broken beyond repair I agree if you mean the current organization. I feel that the philosophy has enough value that it will continue. And I feel that the tool box is still there. It is just a different tool box than what I thought it was. It doesn’t have space ship lazers or dilithium chrystals. But it does have some handly things, household items, and some very nice usable power tools. Sorry to say that these tools are all not in the box right now. The have been carelessly scattered around and will remain that way until someone sane steps in and starts to clean up the mess.
ARC,
Tony
Yes, Tony. I meant it was the organization that’s broken. Just about all of the bridge is now available outside and at some point I expect that all of LRH’s writings will be available on the Internet, so I’m sure Scientology itself will survive. No matter what happens to the engraved plates buried at Tremontina.
How many parallels can you find???
IMO:
Rumpelstiltskin = dm(obvious)
Gladys = the Tech?
King = IRS?
Work all night to be famous = SO?
“Doesn’t matter; I’ll do the thinking” = dm
So many more, but I’ll let you have the rest of the fun…
Hey everyone, this is really a great conversation!! Thank you all.
Due to my current schedule I pretty much have to read all of your insightful and thought provoking comments through the week then return on Sun to release the results of my penned up ponderings. If you subscribe to the comments you will have noticed my comment blitz last Sun on the I’m Okay You’re Okay post.
This process of leaving scn is beginning to remind me of what it takes to really clean a paint roller sleeve with a 3/4 inch nap made from synthetics (the hardest to clean). You know, you’ve been rolling paint on walls for an hour or so and the roller is totally saturated with paint and now it’s time to clean the roller. You roll as much excess paint from the roller onto some surface until you have what seems to be a “dry” roller. Then, you get a 5 gal bucket of clean water and plunge the paint roller in and give it some vigourous shaking. Of course, the water instantly fills with paint so you empty that water out and refill the bucket with more clean water and repeat the process. Now, fast foward and 200 gallons of water later there is still paint coming off that roller and murking up the clean water. The product you want to achieve is being able to plunge the roller into 5 gals of clear water, give some shakes and have the water remain clear. To achieve such a product really requires some tenacity and many gallons of water. Might take a while to accomplish.
A while back I thought my roller was clean and I ceased commenting here on Jeff’s blog and moved on. Ha ha ha ! Guess what? Yeah, I discovered that my roller wasn’t so clean after all. And if I required any confirmation on that realization, I’m certainly getting it here as these last few blog posts made by Jeff and the ensuing comments have really pulled a volume of paint off my roller.
The paint on the roller in this metaphor are the enormous amount of lies, mystery, betrayal, hidden agendas, deceit, torture, inprisonment, extortion, disconnection, brain washing, omitted data and so on that are emodied (from the get-go) in the subject of scn. And, that most definitely includes LRH himself. After all, it was his dream we all entered and became a willing part of.
It has occurred to me (and this will sound nuts) that the process of leaving scn might have been the plan all along. Perhaps leaving scn is the final process of scn. It is OT IX, X and any other of the rumoured OT levels existing above X. At that instant when the individual that is inside the scn bubble begins to look beyond the wall of restrictions and formulate questions that challenge the status quo, that is the moment the individual routes onto the process of leaving scn. If this is the case, what would be the EP? I don’t know, but perhaps it has something to do with positive gain.
I can tell you that since the moment where I acknowledged to myself that I was actually leaving scn, the personal gains that I have been experiencing have surmounted any gains prior. That said, I do know that all prior gains were necessary rungs on the ladder that got me to this rung that I’m stepping on now. Absolutely no regrets! There were no mistakes just lessons.
Monte!!
That was friggin amazing!
It makes sense what you say. LRH sucks us onto his universe to help us handle life and the progression up the bridge is getting us to the point where we can stand on our own two feet!! At that point you are “cause” over your own life. Ha, ha… Then the true OT levels start when you are operating from your own universe, (not stuck in Rons or some churchies) Perhaps as you say that was LRH’s master plan after all and some people just EP faster than others!!
wow!! Thanks for that. I am going to share this one and I will “try” to give you credit, (if I remember). LOL!!
Monte, I liked that idea that the EP of the Bridge was to leave Scientology. There is a saying in Zen Buddhism: “if you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.” Basically, if you’ve reached the point where you can recognize an enlightened being just by looking, you no longer need a master.
Monte,
I completely agree with your summation, “Absolutely no regrets! There were no mistakes just lessons.”
Alan Watts humorously addressed this idea of the guru (teacher) inventing tasks and trials for those who felt they needed them in order to attain enlightenment. It’s a 9 minute clip on YouTube, and well worth a listen. Very funny in the, “oops, I’ve been found out” kind of way.
Here’s a brief edited excerpt to whet your appetite, hopefully transcribed accurately.
“In order to be something great like a Buddha…I ought to suffer for it. So — you can suffer for it. There are all kinds of ways invented for you to do this…
The realization of the self fundamentally depends on coming off it. You know…when we say to people who put on some kind of an act, “oh come off it.”
And some people can come off it. They laugh and say, they suddenly realize, you know. They were making fools of themselves. And they laugh at themselves and they come off it.
So in exactly the same way the guru, the teacher, is trying to make you come off it.
Now if he finds he can’t make you come off it, he’s gonna put you through all of these exercises. So that…when you’ve got enough discipline, enough suffering, and enough frustration. You’ll give it all up. And realize that you were there from the beginning and there was nothing to realize.
But the guru is very clever. He says, Alright, if this is the way you have to go, this is the way you have to go. You asked for it.”
– Alan Watts, Fear of Enlightenment
Personally, I don’t believe that LRH was employing that type of “guru technique.” I think he was simply running down a path after his own case and I jumped in behind him until I finally realized that what he was after and what I was after were not the same thing. On top of that, the Church became very authoritarian and suppressive and the game was no longer about (if ever about) enlightenment, Buddha-hood, or freedom of any kind.
So I stopped following him down the path, took a look around to see where I was, and struck off into the forest. It’s a blast being lost!
Enjoy the audio clip.
craig
Craig, thanks much for the Alan Watts video clip. I just watched it and thought it was excellent! BS (before scn) I used to listen to AW on the radio. Even though I didn’t really understand much of what he was talking about, I was certianly drawn to listen anyway. Obviously (to me), this particular message from Alan is one that I really needed to hear. I mention this because this very talk, but framed in three different video mixes, came to me from three different sources (including yourself) over a period of a couple of days. I watched all three of them just a little over an hour ago. Number of times over…oops damn popups. Ummm….looks like the comm I have for myself from me is, “Okay Monte, forget the suffering already. It’s not necessary. Unless, of course, you think it is. Your decision.”
I had a shift in persception this past week in that I now look at the process of self-discovery, spiritual enlightenment as being a jounery across one river after another but using different boats for the crossing each time. For example, my studies and excurscions into the occult while in my youth was one boat that I used to cross one of the earlier rivers I encountered. The next boat I entered was the boat of pot, LSD, Mescaline and “Magic” mushrooms and when I eventually landed on the banks of the other side of that river, I left that boat behind and didn’t look back. Then, it wasn’t long before a new river presented itself and this time the boat I jumped into was LRH’s scn boat. And it was while I was in this boat that I lost sight of the fact that I was in a boat. I came to consider the boat as being the other side of the river. Well, I finally woke up and here I am with the scn boat behind me and headed toward my next river. When I get there, I can’t even imagine what the next boat will be.
A friend recently reported that his grown kids down in LA are immersed in the Koolaid cocoon so deeply that they refuse to believe that DM is running the show because the Watch Dog Committee would never allow one man to be a dictator.
They think that Idle Orgs are an LRH program and that all of management is making it go right.
They think that DM is simply a spokesperson and is still “fixing the mess that David Mayo left” (going on 30 years ago pretty soon now!).
They think that anyone on the internet saying anything negative is a full blown SP (there’s a major thought- stopper for you).
All of that said, I recall a comment Geir Isene made after listening to the audio tape of Tommy Davis and Jessica Feschback duking it out with actor Larry Anderson during Anderson’s personal episode of Leaving Scientology: Only when Anderson attacked DM did Davis and Feschback get personally offended and angry.
Why?
Because they are in his valence. They’ve snapped terminals with him. They ARE David Miscavige, you see.
This might explain why koolaids hold on desperately and act personally offended and out of valence when an indie even suggests that something might be wrong with COB or management.
Add in the need to be right, along with the terror of losing your “eternal” stable datum, plus a major time and money investment over many years and you’ve got one good dose of brainwashing of the most stubborn kind!
Just a thought….
Ideal Org,
Yes, you are correct. People have gone into his valence and not a good valence to have at that. Quite a win for David Miscavige, I am sure. Imitation is one of the highest form of flattery to a sick person (IMO).
Today I was transcribing an older article, which made me think of Jeff’s post here. Here is the part that I find relate to the topic here:
http://www.xenu-directory.net/news/library-item.php?iid=6205
R. Hill,
This is just another example of someone coming up with some EP of upper levels, which is now NED, and passing it around for others to buy. “leave you body read books, turn pages”. This is some hidden standard being passed around like candy. This is not the EP of NED, see my post above to Jeff.
As for HCOPL, they are only policies. You don’t have to agree with policies if they do not apply to you. Where the hell does it state that you have to agree with anything you don’t agree with? Clearing an MUs only makes what you are reading understandable…it doesn’t make you agree with it.
You can be word cleared on the definition of a 3 swing FN now until dooms day. If you don’t agree with it, all the word clearing in the world is not going to get you to agree.
R. Hill, I really mean this; I am deeply sorry things like this were shoved down peoples throat to a point were they are still nauseated by it. I understand the upset this has caused.
Fantastic post, Jeffer!
There is Magical Thinking. But there are also Magical People.
An “OT” is one type of Magical Person. But there is another type of person who is even more magical than an OT. There is one type of person who is the most magical of all:
The Suppressive Person!
The SP can make Trained OTs lose all their gains, get sick, start nattering, and blow the Church!
He can make whole orgs, missions, and even Sea Org installations crash and burn!
He can make people think that he is not destructive – he can be *very* convincing.
And he can even get past LRH and every other trained Scientologist that exists – completely undetected – to run the Church of Scientology for over 25 years!
I say The Suppressive Person is the Most Magical Person of All!
Exactly Allen. It’s like asking a Christian, “well, if God is all-powerful, why doesn’t he destroy the Devil?” Head-exploding material. “If an OT is so powerful, aware and strong, how can one SP (nowhere on the Bridge) cause him to lose all his gains?” The SP must be more powerful than the OT!
Jeff,
what about “the Suppressed Person Rundown”? Unruly people are audited from a distance without being aware of it. This process calms them down and causes them to stop their attacks. I’ve read the description of this RD on one of the Indie sites and writer literally said: The results are quite magical. So there you go.
The big question would be: Why doesn’t David Miscavige round up a posse of OTs and order them to do the process on the worst SPs…wouldn’t it be great for the church if you woke up tomorrow thinking ‘Oh my! What am I doing? Why am I attacking the church? I need to stop RIGHT NOW!
The answer: The COB moves in mysterious ways…
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That was spot on Allen and oh so funny!!!
I am one of those SP’s and the church has made me “one bad ass magical mother fucker!!”
It’s actually quite a compliment.
🙂
Sorry everyone, talk about giving people an MU.
In all my post above, I used the term NED (probably because I was thinking of the Level I did, NED for OT’s). What I meant to say is that the EP for NOTs , Cause Over Life, is used as PR that you will be “cause over everything that happens in life”. Sometimes, because of this, a person might use some hidden standard for his results, which is not the actual EP of the Level.
Again…NOT’s not NED….I hope I cleared this up.
It’s me again,
I don’t believe that is the EP for OT5 Nots. The EP of Nots (OT5) is set up and able to run Solo Nots. This is not confidential. The EP for Solo Nots is Cause over life. And if they (the church) are using the definition that most people would think of in normal usage, then I have not met one OT7 who has made the grade. Also LRH says that absolutes are unobtainable. Therefore nobody would ever be able to acheive this EP. My question is why hype it up so much unless you have an alterior motive. And I think theirs is money, cash, bad control, and if DM is the SP that he seems to be the motive could also be ruination of very upstat people. Sick stuff.
Tony et al,
That EP of OTV was changed from it’s original EP some years ago. I remember when it happened. When It’s Me Again did OTV..it would have been the unattainable “Cause Over Life” EP. Poof..it’s magic..change the EP whenever it’s convenient and of course, brings in more money.
Tony,
I think I brought about a little confusion when I used the Term EP. The Ability Gained for OT V and OT VII are both posted on the Grade Chart, these are not confidential. You are correct, if you use the definition of “Life” in a common way, that ability is unobtainable on NOTs (IMO). Look at Jeff’s last post to me, he listed 3 definitions of Life. Having done OT VII, does any of those definition apply from your viewpoint? Again, the Ability Gained on the Grade Chart is not the EP, I did not give the Ability Gained from the Grade Chart when I finished OT V. Yes, that was one of the abilities I had, but there was a lot more to it.
Yes..I meant also that the “ability gained” for OTV given on the grade chart was changed from what it stated some years ago. (Cause over Life).
lumamoth, lookdon’tlisten and Sherry,
Look Don’t Listen, Thank you and I did write a disclaimer that this was only my opinion. I didn’t mean that the actual EP that you voice when you are done with NOTs is Cause Over Life. No one knows what the actual EP is until you go to Qual, and this applies to all the Levels…so yes, you are correct, I don’t know what the actual EP is. I have never done NOT’s and there is more data one gets on OT VI that I don’t have, but still, I understand how the Grade Chart works all the way up the Bridge and I don’t see any alteration in the ability gained for each Level, it applies to that particular Level. I don’t think that “Cause Over Life” means that you are cause over all life. If that was the case I would think that the person could just drop the body and go off were he wanted and play a game were ever he wanted…why bother with OT VIII? Your Done!
Sherry, what I was pointing out is that the ability gained on the grade chart “Cause over Life” is, in my opinion, not what it is being PROMOTED to be. All actions on the Grade Chart have the ability gained for that particular level. So if you know what that Level handles, then Cause Over Life, in terms of what you are handling on the Level, makes perfect sense to me. Just because it is posted as ability gained on the Grade Chart, doesn’t mean that is all the ability you are going to get. No one routes through Qual giving the ability gained on the Grade Chart.
Now Sherry, don’t get me wrong. OT V was one of the best things I have ever done. Getting some of this “stuff” handled then off my lines increased my abilities big time. There was a calmness in my own universe that was refreshing. My ability to handle things increased and my perception increased to a point were is was almost scary at first. Am I totally cause over this area? Sometimes, sometimes not. If I became cause over the “stuff” to a point were it did not affect my decisions, considerations, reach, sphere of influence, thinking, etc. that would be great! Is there more to OT VII? I am sure there is. I would love to handle the rest of this “stuff” on OT VII, but I have disagreements with the church and I don’t think OT VII is being delivered correctly.
lumamoth, I am sorry if I have confused you. I went back and forth on whether I should of posted on this subject. It is very hard to explain my opinion to those who have never done the Level. Hearing or reading about something and actually doing it are two different things. It was hard to balance between telling what I believe to be the truth of what the term “Cause Over Life” meant and not invalidating the wins and abilities that others had doing these Levels.
“I would love to handle the rest of this ‘stuff’ on OT VII, but I have disagreements with the church and I don’t think OT VII is being delivered correctly.”
But I see countless success stories in Scientology magazine from people who underwent OT 7. If what you say is true, it’s as if people feel ‘wins’ out of upper levels as long as they really believe what is delivered is actually doing ‘something’ good to them.
In any case, my opinion is that nothing should be confidential, people should be able to make an informed choice about what is waiting them at higher levels as early as the first communication course.
R. Hill,
There are still wins and wonderful abilities to be had on the OT Levels. It has been tweaked and altered to be a long drawn out process for CASH. It has been promoted to be something it is not but what it does handle is well worth getting handled. (IMO)
Another big disagreement is the re-doing of ANYTHING that a pc voiced an EP on. Do you know what happens when someone comes out of something feels great, doing well, abilities increase.. and then is told he didn’t really make it? Well, besides the total invalidation of this evaluation….when that person starts to do the same thing over again, HE IS THROWN BACK INTO WHAT HE CAME OUT OF! This is called overrun and the pc is not feeling really good at this point.
David Miscavige is not stupid. He is not going to completely change everything to a point were there can be no wins, that would be immediate suicide instead of the slow death that is happening.
As for confidential. The reason I don’t say anything about the Level is that I still hold true to the Technology. I understand why the Bridge is set up in steps and that the “negative” is being peeled off a little at a time. A person confronts what he can handle and the idea is that each step of the Bridge raises your Tone Level, ARC and Confront. It is up to each individual to walk the Bridge honestly and do each Level themselves without INTERFERENCE from others viewpoints. It is not up to me or anyone else to shove it down their throat, tell them what happens on each step of the Bridge or feed them with anything that could end up as a hidden standard for them.
I think by now most know what the OT Levels are about. It is all over the internet. Until one sits down, holds the cans, asked a question, looks at what that needles does instantly, feels the results there is no way to describe it. Telling about it or reading about it is not the same as the doingness. The doingness of it is not explainable, you have to do it yourself. It’s a personal thing for each person.
R. Hill, if you take nothing else out of this, then please take this. I don’t think just because a person has done the upper Bridge means that person is a better person than anyone lower on the Bridge or not in Scientology. Feeling you are some kind of elite, know best, above the rest of humanity is very aberrated thinking.
David St. Laurence, who ever you are.
I just saw your post above. Thank you for saying in a few short paragraphs what I was trying to say in about a 1000 words, and some wrong at that. I am glad to hear there are OT VII’s who got it and did not buy into the re-do cycle of the Bridge. Thanks for the info, that verifies for me what my understand of the term Cause Over Life actually means.
Thanks for some really great posts. I have never written you, though I love what you write. I got involved in Scientology because it was real. I felt I could apply a, then b to get c. I had trouble with other groups for this very reason. But then I fell into the pit of “This isn’t working… it must be my fault.” I lost the purpose and reason for being there. I do follow what is happening, but I feel let down for the principles that I believed in. It just isn’t what I was told it was. I am happy now. I have a purpose that has a firm foundation. The feeling of wanting to accomplish the goal of “OT” are still there, but to be able to help my fellow man has taken a front seat. May we all find the integrity to follow that star that we see and to know it is the truth in our life.
Balance
There is always the state of a balance between what you believe and what you don’t.
I like the state of Merlin described by LRH to be as (the last OT before Scientology)…
And I don’t see any OT here around the Globe acting and making things happen like Merlin.
Who has EVER become (similar to) Merlin in Scn?
Hubbard? – As far as I know he died alone and Vistaril was his only guide to that “other world” “where things come true”.
I believe!
Only I believe in those things I can make and reach.
Show me “make and reach”, Scientology!
P.S. Scientology are PR clowns. Scientology has never been more/better than ther own PR promises (which I see “Hubbard said…”.
VaD,
I knew a person in high school who one day came to my house after school. Out of no where the person said to me. You know I can make things move. Not thinking about what this person was talking about I said “ok”. The person said, want to see, I again said “ok”. This person took my pencil and put it on a table in my family room. All of a sudden the pencil moved about 12 inches to the right across the table. I looked at my friend and said , that was pretty good.
We never mentioned it again, but what do you think about that? Magic? Trick? Ability?
Later on in life, I read about others who could do this also.
Is THAT ability (” to move a pencil”) worth $300,000?
In practice, is it reachable by doing states on Gradation Chart????
I believe in Magic, Yes!
I don’t believe Scn can do it.
… NO matter how much money you donate to it.
Oh, want to know how the trick works?
Watch this video 😉
Busted! Notice that when he can’t secretly blow on the pages, he starts in with the “excuses” – too much “static electricity,” “have to build up to it,” and so on.
Sure there are a lot of anecdotal stories about such powers – and who knows, maybe some of them are real – but no one, to my knowledge, has been able to predictably and consistently demonstrate these kinds of powers. And no one has ever claimed Randi’s $10,000 check.
Thanks Fredrick, I always wondered how he did this. I never thought much of it because after doing it he smiled at me like it was a trick, so I left it at that. My friend was much better than this guy. He had the pencil in the middle of the table and did not do all the Jedi hand stuff, he just looked at it and made it roll about 12 inches. I was looking at the pencil, didn’t notice what he was doing.
VaD, As I pointed out, becoming a Merlin, is not the ability gained from the OT Levels.
Here is an example not related to Scientology; Say I wanted to learn to swim better and I took a friend with me to swimming classes. We both did the exact same lessons and practiced together the same amount of time. At the end of the classes we both accomplished “being better swimmer’s”. But now I had an ability to hold my breath under water for 8 minutes and before I could only hold my breath for 3 minutes. My friend still can only hold her breath the same amount of time as before the class, but she can now out swim me by 20 seconds in a race and before our lessons, I would always win the race.
You see, we both accomplished what we wanted to do,” be better swimmers” but after achieving that goal, our abilities increase in other areas of swimming, they were not identical.
The example above is about body abilities that most people would agree can be enhanced.
I was indirectly asking you if you believe in Spiritual Abilities outside of Scientology. I was asking the way I did because I try not to use Scientology terms or words in commenting to you because I know you don’t like it and I try to respect your viewpoints.
I was just wondering if you believe in magic or abilities that are unusual, not related to Scientology or Scientolgist.
I had huge exteriorizations and wins in my early auditing. But the last 10-15 years it seemed like Scientology was doing the reverse it should have been. I became more and more introverted and hypnotic. I believe it was because of the forced viewpoints and the problem with definition FN’s alteration. I have had quite a few good periods of exteriorization though. You cant tell me it was my imagination because I know it wasnt.
Maybe I couldnt levitate or do telekinesis, but I think Scientology, as LRH developed it will increase your OT abilities.
I like Barbara Dews. I think if she was free to watch the SP Times interviews and read the key data that has come out, and then have a few days to de-pts she would be on our side.