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Heber Jentzsch

June 14, 2010

I wrote an earlier post about “things Scientologists are supposed to forget.” We should add to that “people that Scientologists are supposed to forget.”

One of those people we are supposed to forget is Heber Jentzsch. Heber got into Scientology the same year I got in, 1967. So as of this year, he has been in Scientology for 43 years. He is now 76 years old. For many years he was the main spokesperson for Scientology, and while he often argued and fought with reporters, he also earned their respect. In 1982, he was appointed President of the Church of Scientology International, and became, for many, the public face of Scientology. He was a frequent speaker at events, and with his humor and charm, became a popular figure in Scientology. Every Scientologist knew who Heber was.

And now, he’s disappeared from the world of Scientology. He’s just gone.

But do Scientologists ask “where’s Heber?” No. They all know that when someone disappears, you’re not supposed to notice or ask questions.

Do they ask to see the issue removing him from the post of President CSI? Of course not. Do they even ask who is now holding that post? Of course not.

Do they ask why his name has disappeared from Church websites? Or why he never appears at events? No.

I knew Heber. We met at Flag in the 1970s, and we both worked in the Complex in the 1980s. And when I was at the Base, Heber was an occasional visitor, coming up from LA for a conference or meeting. Every time we saw each other, we’d chat for a minute and catch up.
Heber was universally liked within Scientology. I never knew anyone who disliked him.

Except one. David Miscavige.

Miscavige hates Heber. Miscavige hates anyone who is competent, intelligent, and popular. He sees them as a power threat.

So what happened to Heber? Mike Rinder, one of the most recent people to leave the Base, described how Heber is treated by Miscavige. Mike says, in part:

“Heber bore the brunt of much of Miscavige’s ire over the years. I have seen Miscavige strike Heber on at least 10 occasions. Miscavige had dolls made in the likeness of Heber (and me). These were very elaborate reproductions that looked like ventriloquists dolls. Miscavige would make Heber sit with the doll on his lap and Miscavige would address himself to the doll instead of talking to Heber directly. This was to demonstrate the ‘fact’ that Miscavige thought Heber ‘wooden’ and ‘unresponsive.’ (Anyone who knows Heber can attest to how ridiculous this is). It is all part of Miscavige’s Joking & Degrading and constant denigration of people around him, especially those he considered were some form of threat (and Heber’s popularity with staff and public was a very real threat in Miscavige’s eyes).

“The dolls were even flown to the UK for the IAS event where Heber endured endless cruel bullbaiting at the hands of Miscavige. I only saw Heber snap once, when after hours of Miscavige brand taunting and belittling, Miscavige squirted Heber’s face and glasses with contact lens fluid and then blew powdered coffee creamer into his face. This is the level of behavior of the so called ‘leader’ of Scientology.

“But that wasn’t all that happened at IAS event time. Heber, along with myself and Guillaume Lesevre were assigned to MEST work. It was surreal, donning a tuxedo to do an international event and then a boilersuit to do MEST work in the woods next to the Saint Hill Manor lake. And then being thrown fully clothed in the lake (in November). Miscavige then decided it wasn’t good enough to be ‘hidden’ by the lake and moving us to do MEST work next to the Stables where all Saint Hill staff walked to eat their meals. It was there that Heber slipped on a log, fell and quite badly injured himself. Of course, Miscavige blamed that on Heber’s ‘out ethics’. (And just a final note on the UK, not really on topic – Guillaume Lesevre and I were assigned to clean the toilets and sweep the halls in AOSHUK , watched over by Security Guards – plenty of public witnessed this).

“Heber is banned by Miscavige from making any public appearances and isn’t allowed to be in Int events any longer. So, he has become a ‘non-person’ and is kept out of sight at the Int base.

“Heber was the first person from outside the Int base to be sentenced to the Hole. He was there when I left in March 2007, and for all I know, is still there. I do know NOBODY has heard from him for years. And while he was in the Hole, regardless of his years of service and his progressing age, he was treated like everyone else: living in the CMO Int trailer along with 100 others, sleeping on the floor, eating standing up in an office with no tables and chairs and only leaving for 20 minutes once a day for a communal shower in the garage (unless DM was around, in which case some days there were no showers as nobody wanted to risk DM seeing the SPs in the Hole being frog-marched by security to the garage because it would ‘enturbulate’ him – though he demanded daily reports to keep track of  ‘juicy’ admissions coerced out of people). Heber was stood in front of the 100 people and ‘forced’ to confess (an activity which I am ashamed to say I took part in) and then derided about his Mormon upbringing and his relationships with other religious leaders (he was labeled a squirrel). Heber never complained though he was the most senior person in the Hole and the living conditions took a greater toll on him than anyone.

“And like everyone else, he was not allowed to communicate with anyone outside the Hole at all. Not even his own family. And that for Heber was perhaps the hardest thing to endure.”

This is how one of the most respected senior figures in Scientology is treated. With over four decades of dedicated service to the Church, Heber should be enjoying a well-earned retirement, enjoying his senior years with his family and friends around him. He should be the one feted and awarded at events, not the people who give the most money to Miscavige’s slush fund.

Rumor has it that Heber’s son, Alexander Jentzsch, has left the Sea Org. Alex hasn’t seen his father in four years. I hope that Alex Googles his father’s name and finds out for himself how his father is mistreated within the current Church of Scientology.

And as for Scientology public – don’t you think it’s about time you found the guts to ask the obvious questions about your Church? Or are you going to continue with your head planted firmly in the sand?

From George Orwell’s 1984:

“…people who had incurred the displeasure of the Party simply disappeared and were never heard of again. One never had the smallest clue as to what had happened to them. In some cases they might not even be dead. ..”

  1. Tony DePhillips permalink
    June 14, 2010 6:03 am

    Thanks for this Jeff!

    I hope Alex is out of the Sea Org and reads this.

    I wish more Scios would pull their heads out…

    • Lotus Miyamoto permalink
      March 13, 2011 3:20 pm

      I dont get why Heber’s family cant just get the police and a search warrant and just show up at the Int Base to pick Heber up? Anyone know why this is not being done. Miscavage is holding Heber and others prisoners and therefore breaking the law.

  2. June 14, 2010 7:37 am

    Thanks for bringing it up here.

    Heber’s well-being and so on were discussed on Marty’s blog in April this year:

    If I remember correctly, Marty stated that he himself will put an effort EVERY DAY to free Heber.

    After those posts I even joined a group on FB to support getting Heber free.

    I asked there on Marty’s blog before and I will ask again: Isn’t there a way to address the authorities (local or federal) and get them INTO Gold Base to see about Heber’s well-being?
    Not necessarily ask him questions (because I’m sure he’ll say “everything is just fine!”) but look, see… and maybe videotape it/him.

    Te subject was discussed heavily (see number of comments on Marty’s) but – since you’re bringing it up again – nothing has changed re DOING something about Heber…

    I want him free!

    • June 15, 2010 12:41 am

      Several of Heber’s relatives have sought to get news of Heber.

      I put the relatives in touch, over a year ago.

      Janis Grady is Heber’s step daughter, being that Heber was once married to Janis’ mother, the famous Yvonne Gilham/Jentzch.

      Heber’s own relatives from his home state sought news, and people were cross introduced.

      I’ve tried again, to urge the scholar/academics/other religion ministers who were networked to Heber, to PLEASE recognize Heber’s plight, and maybe like the western intellectuals who made public the psychological prison in USSR that smothered thousands of Soviet dissidents, the outside world similar peers HAVE had some influence on totalitarian groups that punish and psychologically imprison the dissidents.

      Well, Heber is not a dissident to the religion of Scientology, he is very likely a strong Scientologist still even all that he’s suffered from the tyrant leader of Scientology.

      This scene is somewhat new in history.

      I do a lot of networking, with scholars, and people who thought they understood Scientology.

      As soon as Jeff Hawkins “came out”, called me, back in 2005, I put Gordon Melton in touch with Jeff.

      Even though scholars who maybe do superficial work on the religions they “study”, my attitude it NOT just disimiss those scholars or researchers, but HELP them.

      They DO have impact all the same. Gordon Melton, in particular, had slowly made more and more accurate comments in public, and in private, he’s alarmingly candid, at least to me he’s been.

      I think anyone who wants to help Heber, well, the thing to do is urge the academics and ministers who Heber spent years nurturing relationships with, to PLEASE come somehow to Heber’s aid.

      Heber is NOT a dissident to Scientology. He’s simply a tragic high level victim to the horrendously misrun top ranks of Scientology.

      And it of course boils down to Miscavige. NO one would treat ANY of these top Scientology officials the way that Miscavige has done.

      I an a hard core atheist, but I know, even L. Ron Hubbard, wouldn’t do these degrading treatments, like are described in Jeff’s and Amy’s and Marc Headley’s books. Hubbard did some bad stuff, enough to condemn him for it, which I also do; Hubbard I find outrageous, but also because he wrote so much, and inflated himself and his ideas and the effectiveness of his spiritual procedures so much, I think unfortunately Hubbard in total, cannot be fully approved of.

      But this said, Hubbard wouldn’t torture top staff like Miscavige has been doing for the last 15 years with degrading taunting and physical punishment that is essentially battery, for which Miscavige and all those who did it and who still do it, WERE WE TO HAVE VIDEOs of all the beatings, the police investigators would be forced to bring charges of battery.

      We lack sufficient evidence to prove it.

      We know it all is true, I’ve known it since the persons who I heard the stories from, one for one, I’ve known, like I knew Jeff since 1976, and I trust he would NOT lie about being beaten by Miscavige.

      But to get Heber out, takes outside pressure.

      Gordon Melton’s email address I will gladly share, and others can email Gordon, who knows Heber, and Gordon HAS in recent years tried to stay in touch with Heber.

      Gordon has been super circumspect to try to give Scientology the benefit of the doubt, which he’s been criticized for, but as history rolls forward, and ask this whole new wave of independent Scientologists carries on its way, again, to me, this just looks like people doing spiritual therapy (even though I’m an atheist, I don’t believe in souls nor thetans nor body thetans nor body thetan clusters, and of course I think Xenu is science fiction made into reality by Hubbard) but Scientology spiritual procedures are a spiritual activity, it is tied in with LRH’s ideas about each of our coming from our own “Home Universes” (see the Time Track Bulletins of 1963), Scientology is all about us as who we supposedly were at the beginning of the univers (the Factors clearly fit with the Time Track Bulletins, each of us creating our own universe, then our universes collided forming the physical universe, supposedly), and Scientology is also LRH ED 339RInt with the grand goal of clearing another planet, and someday getting the whole universe back to Native State.

      The fact that this is ALL believable to members, both inside and out of official Scientology, we are at a point which is somewhat interesting.

      We really just have the problem of the tyrant who is making life hell in official Scientology.

      We have bucketloads of ex Scientologists who still consider themselves Scientologists.

      And we have the former President of Scientology, in a sort of detention camp psychological state of mind and prison setup, at the Int Base.

      I’ll gladly introduce people to Gordon Melton, who want to try to get some of Heber’s old minister allies to help Heber out!

      My number is 412-260-1170.

      I’ve emailed Gordon and some other scholars, asking for their help.

      I’ll urge the St. Pete times to contact these scholars for their opinions about how the former President of the Church of Scientology is being treated.

      I’m pretty positive that John Brousseau will corroborate that Heber is still in the “SP Hall/Hole”

      So maybe the St. Pete Times can be coaxed to do a story on the forgotten (by Miscavige) for NOT forgotten by all the rest of us, Heber Jentzch.

      Chuck Beatty

      PS: If Alexander Jentzsch reads this, I say this to you Alexander, your DAD has LOT of friends in the world! Not just Scientologists! Heber did a tremendous job, and tried to execute one of LRH’s strongest orders to the Office of Special Affairs, which was to make allies and forward the Scientology movement as a religion. Heber did MORE to develop religious allies for Scientology, I’ll dare say, than any Scientologist in Scientology’s history!!! You can call me too, Alexander, whenever you want, I’ll tell you about Heber and help connect you to others who want to get Heber OUT of the “SP Hole”.

    • It's me again permalink
      June 16, 2010 10:43 pm

      Hi VaD,

      Thanks for the link to Marty’s site. Maybe you can try to get Marty to call Senior Protective Services in Riverside and give them the information he has about Heber since he has seen Heber being abused first hand. We need to get someone on the Base to check up on him and other senior citizens being held in a mental prison. Please feel free to forward this message for me and give your own impute.

      Thanks, Me

  3. Heather G permalink
    June 14, 2010 11:54 am

    Does anybody know Alex and can they encourage and help him to make enquiries about Heber?

  4. Nampo permalink
    June 14, 2010 12:14 pm

    Sounds illegal. Unbelievable what crimes Scientology gets away with.

  5. June 14, 2010 2:18 pm

    Heber was the most level headed, patient exec I ever worked with when confronting a devastating issue (not so with reporters). He was a friendly, personable man. No matter where your position was in the organizing board, you never felt he looked down on you, he always had time for a hello and a minor chat. I hope to see him again. the sooner the better.

    • June 15, 2010 12:54 am

      Absolutely Nancy!

      Heber wore his hat of President unbelievably standardly.

      Incredible character.

      I’ll say his dueling with “SPs” was unfortunately a “different” Heber though. When Heber and Dennis Erlich dueled on radio, I rather sided with Dennis. Heber was hamstrung with Hubbard’s tactics, which are losing tactics when it comes to shutting down free dialogue.

      I think though, Heber as a person trying to do the best he could with his role, did a good job.

      We’ll now see if I and others can coax some of the allies he made for Scientology, to step up somehow FOR Heber at this stage in Heber’s life.

      I highly doubt that Heber’s “demotion” from President was standard or just. He clearly could go back on post, if he is physically capable.

      Miscavige has GOT to go.


      Official Scientology is log jammed with Miscavige.

      Other major flaws with Scientology will be forced to be dealt with, one right after the other.

      It’s probably pie in the sky to get Heber back on post as President, but any sane leadership of Scientology would do that.

      Scientology has the problems Hubbard left them with their rules, the admin rules, and that is always gonna be longer range their problems.

      Getting attention on Heber though, might get David Miscavige to stumble and make some mistakes that will get him to eject himself somehow, maybe.

      That’s about the best I can see.

      I have so many ideas.

      A big protest at the Int Base, for freeing Heber, THAT would get news!


      • gandiguy permalink
        June 20, 2010 3:09 am

        You need to include a self addressed stamped envelope so that Heber would be able to write to you if allowed. You could guarantee he receives it by sending it return receipt requested. Of course all incoming mail would be opened by HCO and read and his outgoing mail would be scrutinized in the same way.
        Those are the rules!

  6. gargy permalink
    June 14, 2010 2:22 pm

    I met Heber in 1967 when he was a guitar-toting folksinger — so young, so fresh, so full of hope. He would often entertain us at the Phoenix franchise.
    This is one of the many appalling situations that people who call themselves Scientologists should be up in arms about — regardless of any consequences they fear for themselves. Heber has given his life to his church and his “church” (in the form of its parishioners) has forsaken him.
    I’ve sent cards to the Int base addressed to him in the slim hope that if enough mail showed up for him, the security guards (and perhaps dm himself) would realize that Heber is not forgotten.
    For those interested, the address is: Heber Jentzsch, 19625 Gilman Springs Rd., Gilman Hot Springs, CA 92583-2100.

  7. Its me again permalink
    June 14, 2010 3:07 pm

    Ok, this is getting ridiculous.

    Mr. Rinder and anyone who has been at the Base and has seen the abuse of Heber Jentzsch, needs to call Riverside County Senior abuse center. The number is (909) 955.5400. Stop the talking about it and DO SOMETHING. Start becoming a pain in the ass to Riverside County AND THE BASE and report abuses. If you don’t get results, start writing to everyone who is an elected official in Riverside. I see some every good and convincing writers who have been at the Base, use your talents to convince Riverside of Senior Abuse.

    I don’t know why Jentzsch is not allow to leave or even if wants to leave. Anyone interested should get together and come up with an idea of where to place him or get a hold of the family. But this is secondary. Everyone with information Call!

    He is a senior citizen, and Senior Protect Services will get involved if enough people call and give the details of his living conditions and how he is mentally being treated. SPS is interested in stories of Physical abuse, Neglect and Emotional abuse.

    They may just show up at first so details of were he is being held and living on the Base must be exact. If there is enough people calling with evidence, they may be able to get a search warrant if they are not allowed to enter the Base.

    Make sure when you call SPS they understand that if the Base knows Senior Protective Services is coming, they will clean him up, but him in a better living environment and scare him into not saying anything. Give your stories in a convincing way, remember, these are over-worked government employees who pick and choose their work loads by how important they think the situation is.

    So anyone knowing of his condition and has seen incidents first hand needs to take responsibility and call and keep calling until Senior Protective Services takes him out. Senior abuse is not taken lightly.

    If he has been moved somewhere else, then a missing person’s report on a senior must be filed. By writing this in plain view of other, he may be moved as we speak. But this is plan 2.

  8. sherrymk permalink
    June 14, 2010 6:54 pm

    I’ve known Heber since the old CCLA days . 1973. And his son Alex (Alexander Jentzsch), (Karen Jentzsch is his mother) is one of the most wonderful people I’ve ever met. Alex Jentzsch was the Events I/C at PAC. (amongst other hats he wore)Funny, intelligent and caring, I don’t think anyone who knows him would say anything but the best about Alex. Definitely Heber’s son. He and I became fast friends some years back when he approached me at an event…that was quite a few years back. We used to talk on the phone all the time and he had been to my home. I considered him like a son to me.

    When I was the Tech Sec at Pasadena Org, Alex Jentzsch created one of the few islands of sanity where I could find refuge from the craziness of the Basics release nightmare. Sometimes, we would just close the door to my office and look at each other and shake our heads. No words were needed. PAC SO staff were leaving in droves, not being able to function with no sleep, unreal targets, being taken off their posts to become reges, etc etc etc. How Alex stayed as long as he did is a mystery to me. His flippancy no doubt got him through and he has a lot of it! Simply a joy of a person.

    I’ve repeated his last name here a number of times in the hopes that, if he is really out of the SO, that he will google his name. There’s little I would love more than to see him again, talk with him, share with him.

    I hope you find me Alexander Jentzsch. You have my current phone number in your phone.

    Sherry Katz

    • June 15, 2010 1:02 am


      I heard, when I worked at ASI, Suzy Watson Taylor, who I think is deceased now, I heard, not sure, but from her I heard that Heber and Karen even petitioned to have another child, after Alexander.

      Imagine, you are the President of the Church, and your wife is a Class 12 million dollar producing auditor who trained under Hubbard, and you managed to have a son, and you wanted another child, and you HAD to petition to have another child! That is so nuts.

      Anyways, long story short, David Miscavige disapproved them having their second child.

      Again, for now, I agree that the focus on Miscavige is somehow something we all agree on.

      Heber’s plight, there are alot of people in the allies of the church category who liked Heber also, and are alarmed, or need to be informed about Heber’s plight, so some outside world pressure can be generated to get Heber out and back on post as President if he’s healthy enough.

      I think however communication can be gotten through all the church barriers, is the only way to get some fresh air in the heads of the people at the top of Scientology. They are going to have to get David Miscavige to get OFF post somehow.

      I’m for everyone communicating all they can.

  9. lunamoth permalink
    June 14, 2010 9:06 pm

    Alex Jentzsch. Alex Jentzsch. Alex Jentzsch. Call Sherry Katz, Alex Jentzsch.

  10. LogicHammer permalink
    June 14, 2010 9:14 pm

    I used to be on staff at one of Heber’s favorite orgs (that’s what he would say). I was just a new staff member, no one special. However, Heber literally sat in my area for hours and helped me and my immediate senior. He attracted other execs of my org to my area and we just hung out and worked and chatted and ended up laughing and having a good time. Lots of belly laughs. I had always seen Heber at events but this up-close-and-personal incident showed me he was still the charismatic, funny, high-ARC guy you would see at the events. I was worried that he was actually wasting his time in my area, but apparently he didn’t think so.

    He shook my hand, looked me in the eye and said that I and the rest of our staff were doing important work and he appreciated our efforts. In that very simple moment, I could see just how powerful this guy was, just because of his ARC. His confront of evil was already legendary, but I really didn’t get that at all; it was just pure ARC.

    In HCO PL 7 Aug 1965 Issue I, Suppressive Persons, Main Characteristics Of; LRH wrote “4. AN SP WILL SEEK TO UPSET AND GET RID OF THE BEST STAFF MEMBERS.” Heber was the best of the best. A handful of people inspired me to continue with Scientology in spite of the various outpoints that came into existence after LRH dropped his body; Heber was one of them.

    Mr. Miscavige, I certainly wouldn’t want to be you when your own karma will strike you down with a vengeance.

  11. Rebecca-Tribecca permalink
    June 15, 2010 2:12 am

    Heber Jentzsch attended the early Maiden Voyages on Freewinds along with Marc Yager.
    I had some great comm cycles with him.

    It is hard to read~~ even digest what David Miscavige has done to them for years.

    No one who has been in the Church for decades missed a little one on one time with Heber. He was a top Ambassador for the Church. High ARC, granted beingness, he had a certain presence that made you feel he was someone special.

    That the head of the Church “COB” would spray him with contact lens fluid, blow coffee creamer in his face and mock him with ventriloquist dolls is beyond belief and over the top. Also in his 70s he is assigned to clean the bilges of the ship as Punishment. This is sadism.

    If ever I though that posters were too dark on Miscavige, I am disabused of that illusion.

    I am now going to take a more active role and be less passive.
    To start with, I will send the forced abortion blogs and St. Pete Times articles to

    They posted some pretty gruelling Scientology CULT type articles earlier. It only takes a moment to forward the enforced abortion stories to other religious leaders…..

    David Miscavige, Shame on you !

  12. Joe Howard permalink
    June 15, 2010 3:38 am

    I have a Heber story, though I didn’t know Heber from Adam that day. It was an event at the old Oakland Mission in downtown Oakland to gin up interest in the famous Grand National Convention that took place at the Long Beach Arena in July 1970 (the place was packed, by the way–thousands and thousands of people, but I digress).

    This big, somewhat hippy looking character with a guitar was playing second fiddle to one of the truly legendary personalities in the history of Scientology, Yvonne Gillham. I don’t know if they were a pair at that time, but they both definitely made an impression on this newbie, knucklheaded HSDC student from the Berkeley Mission.

    At some point in the evening, Heber sang a song about a dog and he created a little dog out of words and notes that truly existed for everyone in the audience. At the end of the song, Heber whistled up the dog and I swear I could see a black and white mutt running up the aisle tail wagging towards his master. He had a power and joy of creating that I’d never experienced in my year or so in Scientology and it made an indelible impression on me. (As did Yvonne.)

    Over my years in the SO, I had the opportunity to get to know Heber a little bit, not nearly as much as many, but he made me feel like I knew him as well as anybody, even those he worked with on a continual basis. I don’t know the basis of that magic, but some day I hope to be able to ask him.

    I’ve read the posts about his son Alexander Jentzsch and if he’s anything like the old man, it would be treat to meet him one day, too.

    I hope Jeff’s post and the suggestions of posters to contact the authorities in Riverside County and that pressure is brought to bear to restore Heber to his rightful position at the public forefront of Scientology. Could there have been a better representative for the religion?

  13. Its me again permalink
    June 15, 2010 5:07 am

    Please listen.

    This is easy…. Call Senior Protective Services in Riverside Co. if you have actually seen Heber at the Base being neglected. I would do it myself, but they want first hand information to act. They are obligated to go there and look into it if they suspect he is being abused in any way. If they find something wrong they will get try to get a hold of a family member or if they feel that a crime is being committed, they will get the police involved.

    The worst that can happen is that Heber will be cleaned up and treated better if DM thinks Senior Protective Services in involved. SPS may discover he is not there….at least you will get that much information.

    Open up the can of worms. The system works it way up. Call or write a complaint to the address I gave you above. If you write a complaint, copy it to Riverside Sheriff Department, City Manager, who ever is the Congressman for that area and Riverside DA. The complaint needs to start with Senior Protective Services first. This the “in”.

    Does the base have a medical doctor who comes regularly for the older SO members to give check-ups?

    Is there any other elderly SO members being treated badly?

    Come on. Someone must know something. Use the system, it is free. There is no harm in trying.

    • gandiguy permalink
      June 20, 2010 3:31 am

      Hi Its Me,
      Please cross post this onto Marty’s site. There are folks there that saw the abuse and can do something who might not have read your post. By the way WONDERFUL IDEA! Just like child abuse, elderly have protections in place if they are accessed. There are several benefits to doing this. First of all a letter could be given to Heber delivered by the agency person from family and friends declaring support should he be willing to leave. It might even describe some of the truths found on these blogs. Perhaps even a connection to Marty and JB. Secondly it would establish a legal point of entrance for when the courts get DM and company. Thirdly it would be the precedent for handling other elderly such as Gillome Lessivre and anyone else over 65.

  14. rory medford permalink
    June 15, 2010 4:06 pm

    Those who witnessed the abuse needs to stand up and act. The man at least deserves that, so who will ACT?

  15. mjrinder permalink
    June 16, 2010 12:01 am


    Thank you for bringing this to everyone’s attention again.

    Heber is a gentleman — and he really cares about people. It is why he doesnt fit the mold that Dear Leader has poured. Can you imagine Heber acting like Tommy Davis? Even enemies of the Church respected Heber, and many in the media considered him their friend. You couldnt find a single person in the media these days that has anything but contempt for the arrogance of Tommy Two Tone.

    I hope we are all graced wth Heber’s presence again, sooner rather than later.

  16. June 16, 2010 3:05 am

    Heber is 74 and his 75th birthday is July 11, 2010. is a wiki and since Heber is a public symbol for Scientology, the site is dedicated to freeing not only Heber, but all other detainees.
    And like wikipedia (same software) it can be built by everyone.

    • LookDon'tListen permalink
      June 16, 2010 8:02 pm


      I am glad to see someone actually doing something instead of talking about it. Thank you.

      Do you know why these people are not allowed to leave or if they are being blackmailed into staying for one reason or another?

      Do you know if calling Senior Protective Services to check up on the seniors at the Base will help or are these people programed to say what they are told?

      Do you know if anyone has ever call SPS in the past?

      Seniors and children can easily be manipulated and the agencies that handle protecting these groups know this. If you know anyone who has seen these seniors being held against their will or are being black mailed into staying…..This is against the law!

      Have as many people as you can call and complain and explain all circumstances to the agency that protects seniors that we,the tax payers, pay for to stop the abuse of our seniors.

      It takes real cowards to suppressive and abuse children and senior citizens.

      Thanks again.

      • June 17, 2010 12:44 am

        The Heber birthday project page is here:

        Add, edit, plan…DO something…please!

      • It's me again permalink
        June 17, 2010 4:19 am


        I added the Riverside Elder Abuse phone number on the site. I hope I did it correctly. I am not internet savvy and this was the first time I tried posting on a site like that. Let me know if I need to correct anything.


  17. LookDon'tListen permalink
    June 16, 2010 4:32 am

    I don’t understand some of you guys. (This is not directed at you Jeff) I am more interested in the viewpoint of people like Rinder, Rathbun et al.
    Here we have people INTIMATLY involved in the situations that are discussed on this and other boards regarding situations at the Int Base and with upper management. There is plenty of “here is what DM does”, yet, I don’t see much of “here is what I did”. Things like, “While I was IG Ethics, I was involved in… Or, while I was CO OSA INT, here is what we were doing.” Or “here is the truth regarding… and here is the plan I came up with to handle it. And here is how we implemented the plan.” You could even skirt some responsibility if you want by saying DM made you do it. If Rinder or Rathbun were still at their posts today, there would be no forgivness as there seems to be since they are out. In other words, if the current spokesman Tommy were to come out today, start posting on these sites, and denounce DM, would we all just go “Hey, great! Thanks alot Tommy for posting and letting us in on what DM is doing at INT. please keep it up.” I know I wouldn’t. I would consider Tommy to be in lower condition as a Scientologist. (I don’t mean a CofM Scientologist)
    Realize, I am not trying to attack you, I really do want to know the details and I figure you must have had some involvement in what has been occuring there. You were both on post for quite a while, and I doubt you were able to last that long with clean hands even if things done were at the behest of DM.
    I have not been in the SO, but I do have many SO friends, some who have been or are at INT Level. I have been told things by them that back up what many have said about abuse, so I don’t doubt that what Rinder and Marty says is true.
    Both of you have seen first hand the abuse of Heber. It seems that perhaps you are the best equiped to help him in some way. I don’t know that “hope” alone is going to be enough.
    I understand that taking the information to the press as you have is very effective and in time will bear fruit as it already has. But I do feel full disclosure is also necessary in order to have real credibilty with people who have been around awhile and have some training under their belt.
    Writing books is a great idea, but to get mass appeal, the information will have to be able to be duplicated by non-scientologists. With this in mind, the information important to people like me will have to be excluded. How are we going to find out what YOU know about those things you were involved in or caused? If I’m wrong, let me know.

    • The Chaplain permalink
      June 18, 2010 4:46 am


      In my observation, there is more “here’s what I did” from Rinder and Rathbun than you imply. However, I understand that it still may not be enough for you.

      That being said, here’s some LRH regaring RESPONSIBILITY “In order to make up one’s mind to be responsible for things, it is necessary to get over the idea that one is being forced into responsibility. The power of choice is still senior to responsibility.”

      Especially in trying circumstances, wrought with betrayal, confusion and prolonged periods of enturbulation, it’s best that we give each individual the space and power of choice to exercise their own level of responsibility, in their own way and time. And we should each endeavour to increase our own levels of responsibility and cause.

      Also, it should be noted that those who have left are not engaging in these behaviours any longer (ethics change). And, if you look (don’t listen) you may see a deeper level of responsibility is being taken than initially meets the eye.

      The Chaplain

    • gandiguy permalink
      June 20, 2010 3:46 am

      If Tommy recanted and was willing to help creating or returning to true LRH I would welcome him. I certainly cannot throw the first stone in my small way. He is the enemy because he is in the enemy camp. He is doing the best he can, following what he believes to be right and good, misguided though it may be.
      When one has a true change of heart there is first a healing process then being basically good they try to make up the damages in some way and put things right. Compassion and forgiveness is a beautiful thing. It keeps one exterior!

  18. freespirit permalink
    June 16, 2010 12:13 pm

    A missing person report should be filed with the police.

  19. lunamoth permalink
    June 16, 2010 2:22 pm


    Who are you talking to?

  20. earthmother permalink
    June 16, 2010 5:48 pm

    I for one, will commit to sending a postcard a week to Heber. It costs .28 cents to mail a postcard, and by virtue of it not being in an envelope, the message will be available for all who handle it to read. I have a HUGE collection of postcards from vacations. Maybe some of the pictures will show those inside that there truly is a beautiful, exciting, and wonderful world to live in, explore, and be a part of.

    Now I am off to find a juicy card for a dear man!

  21. LookDon'tListen permalink
    June 16, 2010 6:55 pm

    I’m talking to Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun and anyone else who has first hand knowledge of the treatment of people at Int or who were involved in the situation yet do not disclose their full involvement. Maybe they have, and I haven’t seen it. If this is the case, point me in the direction to find it.

    I am also talking to those that embrace them with open arms it seems, knowing full well they were involved directly. DM by himself could not implement his agenda. He had and has to have help. The posts of IG Ethics and CO OSA are very powerful and would be key to getting away with what DM does. Again, if this data is available, let me know where I can find it.

    Frankly, I’m a bit surprised that Jeff put my post up, but I thank him for doing so.

    • Jeff permalink*
      June 16, 2010 7:09 pm

      LDL, you have the right to ask these questions, and Mike, Marty, or anyone else has the right to answer or not. That Mike and Marty and others are now speaking out is, to me, a major step and a courageous one. I know people who were as involved who have not bothered to say anything at all to press or anyone else. Some took pay from the Church to keep their silence. Some just remain silent. I salute anyone who speaks out. And I know that there is always more going on than is posted about online. Like you. I hope to see the full story publicly revealed.

  22. LookDon'tListen permalink
    June 16, 2010 7:41 pm

    Thank you, Jeff.

    I appreciate that speaking out takes courage and is a major step. I am not trying to slam either one of them or anyone else. There is a mystery here however that I am interested in. If there is action being taken that isn’t posted for security reasons, that’s great!

    Now that I have found out what has been going on, I have to determine where my allegiance lies and who to back up. I can’t do that without data.

    Thanks again.

  23. T Paine permalink
    June 17, 2010 2:26 am


    In the thirty or so years I’ve known Heber, one of the things that set him apart from many, many others was the fact that he never bought into Miscavige’s stigmatization of people. Heber had integrity and simply maintained his own viewpoint on things.

    Though I carried the Miscavige bestowed labels of “failure” and “baby boomer” and was banished to England, I happened to see Heber way across the other side of the great hall at St Hill during an IAS event around 95. Heber saw me too but instead of the snub I experienced with a number of other Int staff, Heber immediately made a B-line for me and shook my hand. He was as happy to see me as I was to see him.

    Meeting Heber, working with him or any other dealings always left a lasting and warm impression. I think it’s this reason that makes him a totally loved figure, probably the only loved figure left in Scientology today.

    That’s certainly the way I feel about him.


    • It's me again permalink
      June 17, 2010 2:12 pm


      I have read your articles over at Scientology Cult. If you know anyone over at that site that has seen Heber or other senior citizen being abused, physically or mentally, please have them call Riverside County Elder Abuse at (909) 955.5400 and give them all the information they can regarding living conditions, physical condition, mental condition and any first hand physical abuse they have seen.

      I am really pushing for Senior Protective Services to go and investigate the physical and mental condition of the elderly SO members at the Base.

      Thank you in advance for any help in this matter.

      • gandiguy permalink
        June 20, 2010 3:51 am

        Go for it It’s me. I’m totally with you on that!

  24. windhorse permalink
    June 18, 2010 1:47 pm

    A few words about the Heber I knew.

    He was the husband, of Yvonne Gillham Jenzsch. They were quite the team. She was several years older and mentioned to me once or perhaps all of us, don’t remember, that when he was kinda waffling about marrying her — she ran him on “what could be worse than?” —

    Yvonne was a constant thorn in the side of West US management and the WUS GO. She considered that NO ONE except LRH was her boss and Diana. So she just ignored them all or kinda pretended to go with the program.

    For example, CC has it’s own nursery and day care. Separate from the Cadet Org. At some point all orgs were ordered to take their babies into what – at that time – was just HORRIBLE. Cribs wall to wall. Smelly – Yvonne under enough pressure, was forced to move the babies there.

    AND it lasted about one week. They all came back to CC. It was just too horrible.

    Heber? Where does he come in? Well – once he started to become known and more respected in the GO — he had Yvonne’s back. Always.

    She was often threatened with removal from her post and somehow Heber would get it mitigated.

    When I left staff — and became public and knew him as public in LA – he never treated me badly (for being exSO) was always friendly and when I did have something he might need to know as the President of the Church —

    He always took my calls.

    He’ll be out I’m confident. Now that Alexander is out — perhaps as his son, he can demand a welfare check and actually get inside Hemet with some authorities.


  25. Virgil Samms permalink
    June 18, 2010 11:38 pm

    Heber was at an IAS rally in Spain in 1988 when the rally was raided by the Spanish police. Heber was arrested and incarcerated.

    Every Scientologist was more or less experiencing the key in of being in prison while Heber was in there. He got out of prison 4 weeks later after CSI bailed him out with Hebers shore story that his mom had taken ill.

    Heber came back and was whisked off to Int. He stayed there for the next 9 months getting plant checked and audited.

    Later in PAC I was eating dinner with Heber (my wife and I were part of his Mess) and I told Heber; “You know, when you were in jail, a lot of us were willing to do anything to get you out of there.” Heber looked at me and smiled his big smile and said; “well, I’m glad you didn’t because I was in the middle of making a whole lot of friends there and some I was auditing as well.” Then he looked at conspiratorily and said “Besides it was the only way I could take a vacation” Then he burst out laughing.

    Leave it to Heber to take something like being imprisoned and make it into a vacation. He went on to tell us all of the friends he had made and stories of them.

    Heber also was the minister for my daughters wedding.

    God Heber is a treat to know and to hang with.

    ML Tom

  26. Shawn Lonsdale permalink
    June 28, 2010 12:14 am

    Amazing blog!!!! Well written and your entry on the Truman Show anology was perfect. Thank you and good luck!

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