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“You Will Attack the Church”

December 13, 2009

Just a quick note. An OT VIII recently had a meeting with their local DSA and a prominent field Scientologist. The message? “You will attack the Church. If you leave, you will attack the Church because that’s what always ends up happening.”

Desperation? Or maybe apathy?

Makes you wonder if the DSA or the field Scientologist ever connected the dots. Maybe people leave because they are tired of the lies, fraud, abuse and pressure. And maybe they “attack” the Church because the only way to effect any reform these days is to go outside the Church and speak up about the abuses. One certainly can’t express any criticism inside the Church!

So they know that people who leave “always attack.” Because these days, more and more are speaking out.

  1. lunamoth permalink
    December 13, 2009 6:18 am

    The official church viewpoint is that ANY disagreement or criticism of it or its agents, no matter how well founded, is an attack. So by definition, if you have an ARC break with the church severe enough to cause you to leave, your very thoughts on this matter are just incipient attacks. What’s more, anyone speaking out against alterations of tech, failures to apply policy, or violations of basic human rights, is an enemy. That’s ANYone. Inside the church, outside the church, ex-scientologist, non-scientologist. ANYone. That’s a group that contains a lot of people.

    If management could see the problem correctly, it would be able to solve the problem, but it can’t do either because the problem isn’t that everyone leaving the church attacks it. The problem is that as a manifestation of dm’s own case (which he is dramatizing on staff and public), the “church” is behaving like a Type 3.

  2. December 13, 2009 7:10 am

    Talk about a self fulfilling prophecy!

  3. jack lord permalink
    December 13, 2009 1:19 pm

    “An OT VIII recently had a meeting with their local DSA and a prominent field Scientologist.”

    Which OT VIII?

    Which prominent field Scientologist?

    • rebel008 permalink*
      December 13, 2009 5:23 pm

      Many of our sources choose not to be identified – for obvious reasons.

  4. ExVet permalink
    December 13, 2009 5:11 pm

    Desperation? Apathy? More like stupidity! They just admitted to your OT VIII that OTs are leaving and are always attacking. Not a very creative way of handling the conversation.

  5. Jim Logan permalink
    December 13, 2009 5:36 pm

    From the Manual of Justice: “You punish a man. He goes away to join the ranks of the squirrels. You swell the opposition. Don’t do it. ”


  6. Boyd H. permalink
    December 13, 2009 6:28 pm

    There’s a grain of truth in what OSA is saying. It looks like the majority who’ve left in the past go off target. I understand the psychology of that to a degree, it can be overwhelming. But for me DM is the target. Not orgs, the SO, OSA, HCOPLs etc., and now for the first time large amounts of quality people are flocking to this goal. This has never happened before.

    Many would disagree with me, but the best chance we have of changing this drastic situation is pushing policy, and policy calls for one thing at the moment, standard justice proceedings on DM. Action will result from keeping this central.

    But even if I were wrong and HCO PL’s need to be reviewed, other intentions only serve to weaken the central message, which is the only message which will result in doingness. Sure outside the org tech should be promoted but not to the point of closing the door on reform.

    HCO PL’s will never be “reviewed” in this way. An “OT council” will never be formed alongside the SO as a check and balance for example. So much agreement is behind the idea of HCO PL’s and source (thankfully, IMO), it’s an unrealistic dream to ask for more than reform. Never mind that I disagree with brave new reform, the point it you’ll never get your vision, or it’ll be twisted so it’s not your vision because of no common ground of agreement.

    Speculating too heavily on anarchist scientology or Mayo etc etc will never win enough converts, it’ll only entrench people to DM because they have no where to turn to. Plenty of people fill that role, any one of us don’t need to go there. Those with the most discernment will read through the lines through that type of writing and benefit from it without going off the main purpose line, but we need more people pushing policy and not turning around and subtly degrading LRH in so many ways through “intellectual” maunderings.

    This isn’t directed at the article or anyone in particular, it’s just what I thought of after reading ““You will attack the Church. If you leave, you will attack the Church because that’s what always ends up happening.”

  7. SherryMK permalink
    December 13, 2009 7:06 pm

    This post goes a long way in revealing the very reason for management executing some of it’s more recent desperate actions like its efforts to round up the Ex-Sea Org guys and offering to eliminate or greatly reduce their “freeloader” debts, offering “deals” to public to be reunited with their families, forgoing previous “declares”, doing blanket “ethics interviews” on OTs and other public, et al.

    The church creates these “attacks” themselves and then blame them on Marty Rathbun or the drug companies or the psychs or anonymous, never looking at it’s own crimes or actions. Very handy. At least they recognize that staff and public who leave will not just sit on the fence for long! Once the research on the net starts, once people start communicating for real with each other and truth is revealed, it’s very hard not to spot the true source of the problems within the church and want to do something about it.

  8. December 13, 2009 9:03 pm

    I have recently been looking at the cultural divide between old timers in Scn and those who have few points of reference outside the closed society of the Sea Org.

    It appears that the cultural benchmarks of one culture can look like False Data to another culture. The viewpoints may have almost no overlap, thus there is no reality.

    I have just posted an article examining this in some detail:

    You might find it interesting.

  9. Ex-RPFer permalink
    December 14, 2009 5:29 am

    What I love is that the word “Attack” is used so loosely. Why is it an “attack” to point out things that are wrong or injustices done. Those are just facts. It isn’t an “attack”. But the church likes to use that word because it is scary. If someone comes at you with a knife and tries to stab you, that is an attack. If a former member of your group comes forward and says that you were mean, and took their family away by lying to them, that is a complaint.

    I guess the church may “feel” attacked right now since so many people are openly complaining about things that have been wrong for years. Perhaps they would prefer that everyone just go back in the dark and just leave their checkbooks at the door?

  10. Barney Rubble permalink
    December 14, 2009 6:12 am

    Old Auditor,

    I am with you. A pretty good study.

    And I know from personal experiences First Flow, 2nd Flow, and Third Flow Jacklord, this is in fact true, It is happening here today and right this minute. When you wake up Monday you will I am sure get wind of the same deal

  11. G. Schutte permalink
    December 15, 2009 4:38 am

    Attack the Church, my ass, we’re attacking those who fail to follow KSW, not the church, which is being generalized. SOURCE is the answer, not DM’s “command intention” of alteration. Well f__ yea, we are attacking those that aren’t following KSW LRH source. SOURCE is the only answer and those that choose not to follow it are the real enemy.

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